Before being a supergroup staple of the 21st century, playing alongside The Winery Dogs, Sons of Apollo, and more. Before selling millions of albums, headlining arenas, and scoring a #1 hit with Mr. Big. Before dominating MTV alongside “Diamond” David Lee Roth, Billy Sheehan was the driving force behind US cult metal kings, Talas. Nearly four decades since we last heard from the band, Sheehan has reunited the beloved outfit for a triumphant comeback effort entitled 1985. We sat down with Sheehan to discuss the past, present, and potential future of Talas, as well as the mighty Van Halen and the band he ALMOST played for.
Greetings Billy and welcome to Defenders of the Faith! How are you doing today?
Billy Sheehan: I’m good! “Metal” Joe Miller, nice to meet you!
Likewise! I’d like to start by congratulating you on the release of the new Talas album, 1985.
BS: Thank you.
Just the words “new Talas album” seem a bit surreal, do they not?
BS: *laughs* They do, they do for sure. It’s been a long time.
It’s been nearly 40 years since we’ve heard any new music from Talas. What events lead to the band reuniting to make this album?
BS: We got together to do one show. Mark “Machine Gun” Miller, our drummer, you guys should hang out together because you’ve got a similar moniker *laughs*. He came to see us play with The Winery Dogs and I hadn’t seen him in a long, long time. He was there with his daughter. She’s all grown up now, beautiful young lady, and I realized Mark had stopped playing when Talas ended back in ‘85. His kids had never seen him play. I thought, “Man, they gotta see Mark play drums. Everybody does!” *laughs* He’s a phenomenon of nature, a mind blowing player!
From that point, I said, “If something comes up, let’s do a show.” There was a charity show in Rochester, New York for a fire department. We did it for free. I got there about 5 days before the show and we rehearsed. We had such a riot. It was just great. We had fun in that band. We were under a lot of stress, a lot of pressure, but we still managed to have a lot of fun back in ‘85. We were trying to get signed. We were hoping to get a break in the business and all that. We were pushing hard to make it happen. There was a lot of pressure, but we still managed to have a great time.
After those rehearsals, we said, “Let’s do a few more shows if they come up.” So we did. We did New York City, another Rochester show, Buffalo, Albany. Then we thought, “We’re doing all these songs from 1985.” Some of them we did on the live album (Live Speed on Ice), but that was kind of a hurry up album. This was a way for us to finally properly do them in the studio. We thought, “Well there’s two ways we can go about this. We can modernize and slick ‘em up and bring ‘em up to date, finetune the lyrics and all the things you might do. Or, we can get in the time machine and do it just like we did in 1985, like we were doing them presently when performing the live shows.” That was it! We thought, “Ok, this should be pretty easy.” We set up in Mark’s living room in the house he built. He’s quite the amazing architect and craftsman. He built the house by himself. It’s unbelievable. Beautiful home. And we recorded 1985 there.
The album really does have that retro feel to it. If you played it for me blindly, I would’ve thought it actually came out in 1985, which I’m sure was the purpose.
BS: Absolutely. We wanted to literally go back in a time capsule because it was such an amazing time for music and bands. There were a million bands. Some of them now are huge and famous. Some of them are gone. Some of them are forgotten. The crowds were amazing. Everybody was into music. It was before the internet. Music was everything to so many people. Having the record sound like that, our engineer, Russ McKay in Toronto, and another gentleman Scott Bush, both of them had come to see the band back in the day, so they knew what they were dealing with. I thought that was a real advantage because they remembered what the band sounded like. Sure enough, we unleashed them on the technical side of it and they pulled it off very, very well.
It reminds me a lot of when I go back and listen to a Grand Funk Railroad album from the 70s. There’s no reverb, no nothing on those records. It’s just a band in a room playing and it’s glorious! It’s great. They were a big influence on me and on Talas through the years. In a way, it was that method: Just go in there and play the thing. We’ll have the engineers mix it and it should be just what we sound like when we’re in a room or on a stage for real. We’re very grateful to the engineers that pulled this off.
Nearly all of the songs on 1985 were written in the 80s, and a handful of Talas songs made it onto albums of your future endeavors, such as “Shyboy” with David Lee Roth and “Addicted to That Rush” with Mr. Big. How many songs did Talas write that either never saw the light of day or were reappropriated in some way or another?
BS: Oh man, there’s gotta be dozens. I saved all these cassettes from back in the day. The world had since gone digital into the 90s and the 00s, so I had a pile, literally about 18 inches high and 2 or 3 feet wide, of cassettes. That’s all the Talas demos and rehearsal tapes and songwriting tapes. I decided to digitize them all so I could easily access them. I set up two dual cassette players, two cassettes per player, four tracks per tape, so it turned out to be eight tracks.
I’d put in four cassettes, hit record on Pro Tools, hit play on all four decks, and record every cassette I had. It took a long time *laughs* and it had auto reverse, so it’d automatically get to the end of the tape and reverse record the other side. All those demos and songs and experimental pieces and all that, I have them all digitally. Going over them in recent years, there’s a lot of music that never saw the light of day *laughs*. Some pretty good stuff, some stuff I see why it was thrown away *laughs*, but there’s quite a catalog of stuff.
What’s the biggest difference between playing with Talas and playing with one of your many other bands or projects?
BS: Well Talas, especially the lineup we did this record with…there’ve been about 8 or 9 versions of Talas, but this particular one, I think we had the best, most up to date players. Everyone that ever played in Talas, I have respect for their playing ability. I’ve been fortunate enough to work with really great, talented people through the years. Honestly, there’s not a lot of difference. With each band, I pretty much approach it the same way, song to song. Some heavy band can have a lighter song. Some lighter band can have a heavy song.
Back in the day, Talas was a copy band. We covered hundreds and hundreds of songs in all kinds of styles. From King Crimson and Be-Bop Deluxe, to Crosby, Stills and Nash to Grand Funk to Robin Trower, Hendrix, Stones, Beatles, Bowie, everybody. You get used to formatting what you were doing as a player to sound like that song, or be able to deliver that song to that audience in a convincing way. Moving around band to band now, it’s kind of like that. In The Winery Dogs, it’s a different thing than I have in Talas. Mr. Big is a different thing. Sons of Apollo is different and Niacin is different. All these different bands that I’m fortunate enough to work with. There are some similarities, but certainly some differences. I let nature take its course.
1985 opens with a ripping re-recording of my all time favorite Talas song, “Inner Mounting Flame”. How did that song come to be?
BS: Mark Miller was a huge Billy Cobham fan. Billy Cobham, for those who don’t know, was a drummer. He really changed the world of drumming in many ways Hendrix and Van Halen did for guitar. Billy Cobham came along and the world was different the next day. At one point, he played in a band called Mahavishnu Orchestra that made him the most popular. It was a proto-fusion jazz meets heavy rock band. They were really innovative and amazing. Not hugely popular, but all the musicians knew Mahavishnu Orchestra.
The first time I ever heard Mark was on a demo tape where they did a Billy Cobham song called “Stratus”. It’s from one of his solo records and it’s an impossible drumming extravaganza. Mark nailed it and they played it a third faster than it was on the record *laughs*. I always thought, “Wow, this is amazing!” This is before I actually met him. When I met him, it turned out we had Billy Cobham and Mahavishnu Orchestra in common. This was a band that we loved, so we kept that between ourselves.
At one point, when I was writing, I thought, “I love that phrase, the “Inner Mounting Flame”. It’s funny because some reviewers have botched it, calling it the “Inner Mountain Flame”, but in fact it’s “Inner Mounting Flame”, which I think is some kind of reference to some religious point of view that John McLaughlin had. I’m not sure what it was, but it had something to do with that. I just love that phrase.
The main riff, that pentatonic scale that opens the first verse, that’s a very John McLaughlin riff. He did those pentatonic scales quite amazingly: Fast and clean and brilliant. When I started to work on that riff, I thought, “That sounds a lot like Inner Mounting Flame!” That wasn’t a song. That was just the title of the record. So I thought, “I think it’s legal to use that as a lyric point.” Then I wrote the lyrics behind that concept. Having Mark play on that was just brilliant. He really Cobham’d it out and nailed it. It’s funny because it’s a heavy metal/hard rock song, but it’s paying tribute to a band that was really a cutting edge group of players back in the day.
As a fan, I’ve always been a bit weary of re-recordings, even with my favorite bands, but that is one that hits it out of the park. Having only known the live version, hearing it done in the studio was quite the trip for me.
BS: I’m glad to hear! I’m the same. I don’t like to hear re-recordings of things. Once it’s done, it’s done. The only problem we had with that live album is it was kind of a hurry up. We had to quickly get it done and then we did the show. It’s funny about recording live shows. Generally, a band will do, if they’re smart and they got the budget, a bunch of shows and then pull songs from different ones for the best performance.
Deep Purple’s Made in Japan, I have the bootleg. That was a compilation of 5 shows. It wasn’t one show. There was some amazing stuff at those other shows. Ian Paice does a drum solo at one of those shows that’s one of the best I’ve heard in my life, but that’s not on the record. Similarly, a very famous old school record, Frank Sinatra’s Live at the Sands, I got a bootleg of the other shows, the 5 or 6 shows that they did and took that from. It’s not unusual for a live album to be that because one night the song works perfectly, but as soon as you bring recording equipment in, nothing seems to work *laughs*. It’s a jinx as soon as that red light goes on.The next night, you’re not recording and everything’s perfect, so you try and do a couple shows.
That show, the Live Speed on Ice show, was a hurry up. We did one show. I was happy with what we played, but we had just started out and those songs needed to be played live a little more to be up to speed. I was glad we could do it in the studio and very glad to hear you felt that way about it because similarly, I’m not crazy about hearing the same song done again and again. Either you got it or you don’t.
Live Speed on Ice was recorded at the legendary L’Amour. What are your favorite memories of that venue?
BS: Well that was L’Amour East in Queens. The L’Amour in Brooklyn was usually the one we played at. L’Amour East came a little later and didn’t last as long. It didn’t have as many iconic moments as the Brooklyn one, but it still was L’Amour. Playing in New York City at that time was a riot. New York City was a hard rock and metal city. There were a million places to play in the area. Within an hour’s drive of Manhattan, there were dozens of great clubs. L’Amour East was a riot.
I actually remember that night. It snowed about a quarter of an inch in New York City. Now in Buffalo, we’d get 3 or 4 feet of snow and everything was still open *laughs*. Nothing would stop. I remember pushing snow with my chest while walking to school as a kid, but New York isn’t the same, so that quarter inch of snow shut the whole city down. We still had a great crowd, but it was a tough night. I’m glad that record exists as a little snapshot in time for that moment, but I’m even more glad that we had this opportunity to re-record some of this stuff.
We can’t talk about this album without talking about Phil Naro’s brilliant vocal performance. Taking his passing into consideration, do you see 1985 as a way of closing the Talas chapter, or do you see yourself soldiering on with a new incarnation of the band?
BS: Good question. We don’t know yet. We would love to play these songs, especially now that the album is out. Quite frankly, everybody is overwhelmed at the response, so much so that Amazon sold out. All these distributors sold out. Everything’s sold out. It’s been difficult for people to get the record because it’s been snatched up, which we’re very, very pleased about, of course. I’d love to play this stuff now that we’ve put the record out, but we’re facing the situation of having lost Phil.
There’s a couple singers that would like to talk with us. We’ve been in touch with a couple guys that could really do a great job on it. We may want to do a show or two to say “thank you” to Phil in his honor, in his memory and see where it goes from there. I would love to play this stuff, but I don’t want to play it in any way, shape, or form where it isn’t really a tribute to him. Even if we went on to play further shows, we’d really like to cement his legacy because he not only was a great singer and performer and songwriter, but what a wonderful guy. Life is just not fair to see a guy like that snatched away in the prime of his life.
When he recorded this record man, he got up to that mic and nailed it and hit it hard and gave it every ounce he had, knowing he had a problem. We didn’t know this. His cancer came out of remission and he went up to the mic knowing that. We didn’t know how bad it was up until that point. I’m even more impressed and endeared to the man because he was able to get up to the mic. I don’t know if I could do that. If somebody said, “Hey, it’s not looking too good. You might have a little problem here that we’re not sure what the outcome is gonna be.” I don’t know if I could perform with that on my mind, certainly not at my peak. Phil pushed even harder. It was quite touching and quite amazing. I’d love to at least do a tribute to Phil here and there. Maybe in his hometown, maybe a Buffalo show, and we’ll see where we go with that, but that remains to be seen.
I had the pleasure of seeing and meeting Phil only once. It was about 4 or 5 years ago that he came through town with his Yes tribute band, Yessongs. It was absolutely incredible, and like you said, what a humble person.
BS: He was the greatest guy, really. Not an atom of lead singer’s disease in his entire being *laughs*. He was just such a joy to work with, so cooperative and so easy. Since then, I’ve met a couple other singers that don’t have lead singer’s disease either. Maybe we’re gaining herd immunity from that. I hope so, but Phil didn’t have it from the getgo and he was just a joy to work with, a wonderful man. One great thing about the record, if I may say, is the song “Black and Blue”. He had his son James join us. James has a wonderful voice and looks a lot like Phil too. Phil was really bursting with pride that his son could join him on this record, so we’re really happy to have him.
After Talas, many fans would first come to know you as the bassist for David Lee Roth. Back in the 80s, the media and the fans saw a sense of rivalry between Van Halen and David Lee Roth’s band. Did you personally ever feel such a rivalry existed?
BS: No. It was tough because I loved Van Halen. I saw the back and forth those guys had and there’s a lesson for every band there. Bands are very much like a marriage. It’s the same dynamic of course. It’s different in many other ways too *laughs*. You’re gonna get mad. You’re gonna get upset. You’re gonna storm out and say, “I’ll never talk to you again.” And maybe you will get divorced, but then a couple years later you run into each other and say, “Hey, we had a great time. There’s no reason for us to be pissed off at each other anymore. Let’s move on.”
It was heartbreaking as a fan to see that happen. Of course I was on Dave’s side because I was with Dave, but I never stopped loving Van Halen for a minute. I was glad to see them get together. I remember when they first talked about it in secret about getting back together. All the ex crew guys from Van Halen and Dave are all friends of mine. We all go out in L.A. I remember when we first heard about it. We all met up in this club in Studio City and we’re yelling, “Dave’s back in Van Halen!” *laughs* We were so excited to see them back together, because first and foremost, I’m a fan of Mike, Ed, Al, and Dave. As much as I appreciate the incredible opportunity to work with Dave, what he did for me and my career, there was always a little thing in the back of my mind like, “Man, I wish Dave was still in Van Halen.”
And it happened!
BS: Yeah! That was cool. I love the band and Van Halen was a huge inspiration to me. I just did a show recently. I got up with Sammy Hagar and Michael Anthony. They did a benefit show in Chicago and they invited me up to play. The first time I did that with Sammy years ago, he went, “What Montrose songs do you know?” “All of them!” *laughs* So I got up to play with them. You hope it can all be one big happy family. Unfortunately, it doesn’t always work out that way, but after a few years that stuff should settle out. I’m glad to see it did.
You’ve played with so many bands over your career. One band you almost played with was Canadian hard rockers Max Webster. How did that come about and why did it not materialize?
BS: In Talas, we played in Toronto a lot. I remember the first Toronto show we ever did was in a club called Larry’s Hideaway, which is in the basement of a hotel. We’re down there playing and there’s about 4 or 5 people. We started on Monday and played all the way through Saturday, a whole week. There’s just a couple people sitting in the audience and one guy is sitting at a table alone. We started playing and about 3 songs in, the guy from the table runs out of the room. So we’re playing away there and the next thing you know, there’s 4, 5, 8, 12, 20, 30 people in the room.
That guy was Kim Mitchell. He got on the phone and called somebody, “Hey, you guys gotta come down here and see this band!” That’s how I met Kim and I stayed in touch with him. I was out of Talas for about a year in ‘78. I remember I called him and said, “Hey Kim, let me know if you need a bass player. I’m band-less at the moment.” So he invited me to come up to Toronto. The bass player at the time was Mike Tilka from the original lineup of the band. So Kim hired me to be in the band and I did rehearsals with them for I think Universal Juveniles.
Then it came to the end. There was a guy who worked with Kim who just didn’t see eye to eye with me. He had Kim’s ear a little bit, so he decided, “Well, maybe this isn’t gonna work.” So I went back to Buffalo. I started the first band I did with Phil and Mark the year that I was out of Talas. Then I went back to Talas after that. Kim went on and hired, I forgot the guy’s name, but Kim and I stayed in close touch throughout the years. I’m still a big fan of his and Akimbo Alogo is one of the greatest rock records ever made. I’m such a fan. We may do something at some point. I’d love to!
That would be killer to hear. In closing, what are your plans for touring and recording into 2023?
BS: New Winery Dogs record is done. It’s mixed, mastered. The cover art is done. The credits are done. They’re booking shows for us now, booking up all next year as much as possible, so we’re excited about that. I’m not sure about Mr. Big, but there’s a little bit of talk that we may do some shows next year also. We’re all talking about it a little bit, so we’ll see about that. Maybe even some Niacin shows with Dennis Chambers on drums, a couple of those would be cool. But next year’s gonna be a very, very busy year.
I’ve been off for way too long *laughs*. This is the longest I’ve been off in my life really. Since I started playing, I play constantly. I’m really looking forward to getting back up on stage next year, certainly with The Winery Dogs and the new record. We’re all super pleased with it. It really came out wonderful. We’re excited about it. And like I said, hopefully we can do some show in loving memory of our fallen brother Phil and play some of these Talas songs live. I’m not sure when, where, and how, but that’s what is in our hearts, so we’ll see what happens with that. It’s gonna be a busy year!
Being from Chicago, I’m sure I’ll see you in some capacity or another at the Arcada Theatre.
BS: You will! Absolutely, as a matter of fact. I don’t know what the date is, but I know that’s in our sights. I love playing that gig. It’s a wonderful gig. The gentleman that runs it is a great guy, so we’re always excited to have our Chicago friends come out there.
The new Talas album, 1985, is available now on Metal Blade Records. For more information on Billy Sheehan and Talas, visit www.billysheehan.com.