Before becoming the master of barbaric-romantic metal, David DeFeis was an aspiring singer, ready to take on the world as the frontman for New York’s hottest new metal export, Virgin Steele. Metal historians fixate so fervently on Virgin Steele’s legendary late ’80s output and equally epic mid ’90s through early ’00s run that their earliest years often get lost in the shuffle, relegated to footnote status as an example of young gods finding their way and forming their sound. Now, after decades of wrongful misunderstanding, DeFeis has taken it upon himself to remix and remaster Virgin Steele’s first two albums, their self titled (1982) and Guardians of the Flame (1983), presenting them to the world in all their glory in the form of “anniversary editions”. We sat down with DeFeis to discuss these US metal monuments, the roots of Virgin Steele, and the potential of an Exorcist resurrection.
Greetings David and welcome to Defenders of the Faith! How are you doing today?
David DeFeis: Greetings brother! Thanks for having me. I’m good, yeah. How are you?
I’m great! Thank you so much for taking the time to do this interview. We’re going to be taking on a very unique subject in the scope of Virgin Steele’s history today. We all know and love those classic ’80s and ’90s albums, Noble Savage, Age of Consent, and so forth. However, today we’re going to be going way back in time to the early ’80s, the beginning of the Virgin Steele mythos, and for good reason. This Friday will see the rerelease of Virgin Steele’s first two album’s, 1982’s self titled debut and 1983’s Guardians of the Flame. Branded as “anniversary editions”, both albums have been fully remixed and remastered. When did it first cross your mind to embark upon this restoration project?
DD: I wanted to do it two or three years ago, but I got really bogged down in new stuff. The last album (The Passion of Dionysus) was very involved. It took a while to put that together and whatnot, so I really wanted to do it last year, but I said, “There’s far too much on my plate right now. Let me clear the deck and then be able to do it when I can really focus in on it and do it properly.” So I waited and dove in early this year, and there it is.
Has it already been a year since the last album?
DD: Yeah, it was actually June 30th of ’23, so a little over a year ago.
Well clearly Virgin Steele is not a band to keep the fans waiting as the ball is rolling strong.
DD: I am trying to do that. We’re already into what is going to be the next brand new record, so we’re working on that and the one after that as well. We’re in the thick of it.
Sonically speaking, what aspects of the first two albums did you feel needed to be improved upon for these here reissues?
DD: Well, I always felt like the early versions were very either really edgy *makes static sound*, shit going on in the upper ranges of things, or everything was sort of drowning in reverb, where after a while it was a bit of a mush. You couldn’t always distinguish what was going on. I had to address that, make it sonically more understandable for the ear, but also a little bit more oomph in everything as well: A little more bottom end, a little more low end, a little more bass and kick drum and that sort of thing. Especially with Guardians, my goal was, and this is what I just mentioned, to sort of make it like you think, was that done in the ’80s, or did they go in last week and do that? That was kind of the goal, like a timeless factor. Was it done in the ’70s before the band even formed, or was it done last week? That kind of a thing!
I’d like to go back in time to the very beginnings of Virgin Steele. The band was initially formed in ’81 by guitarist Jack Starr. When did you first meet Jack and how do you recall your audition for the band?
DD: The band didn’t exist. There was no concrete thing. Jack was doing something with (drummer) Joey Ayvazian. I was working with (bassist) Joe O’Reilly in other different things, trying to find people to have a sense of “This works together.”, that kind of thing. Joe and I went through a lot of different people and a lot of different lineups and whatnot. One day, I had answered some ads. Back in the day, there was a magazine called Good Times. They were always having these little want ads in the back: “Singer wanted”, “Drummer wanted”, “Band looking for gear”, whatever. That’s how I met Joey Ayvazian, the drummer.
He said, “I got this guy, Jack Starr.” I said, “OK, cool. Let’s meet. Let’s play.” Joey said, “OK.” He arranged for some studio to meet at. I show up at the studio, but apparently he forgot about it and didn’t ever arrange anything, so I got there and there was nobody there. This is pre-cell phone days, so I used the studio phone and I called up Joey and said, “What’s up? Where are you guys?” “Oh yeah, yeah. We screwed up.” I said, “Well, why don’t you come over to my place and I’ll play for you guys.” So Joey came over and then Jack came over, and I played just by myself, keyboards and vocals.
I did “Child in Time” from Deep Purple, “Catch the Rainbow” from Rainbow, and a bit of “No Quarter” from Led Zeppelin. They liked me, and I liked them as people. I hadn’t heard them yet, so I said, “Let’s play. Let’s do something.” So they arranged something, or Jack arranged something. I showed up again at this thing and Joey’s not there. He’s got some other drummer there and a bunch of other people. We jammed, and it was fun and whatnot, but I said to Jack, “What happened to that Joey?” He said, “I don’t know with him.” He was floating around with a lot of different people as well. I said, “I liked him. I want to hear him. I like what you’re doing, but the rest of these people at this jam, I’m not into them.”
I said, “Look, I got a guy. I got a bass player.” He said, “OK.” So finally, we went back to my studio where I had everything, brought in my guy Joe O. Those two finally showed up, Joey and Jack, and we played. We had very good chemistry straightaway, so three weeks later, we were in the studio making what became that first album. It was just supposed to be demos, but we started making cassettes of the demo, sending them out, and people liked it, so we went, “I guess this is our record. We’re not gonna rerecord it now!” That became the first album *laughs*.
In those early days of Virgin Steele, the songs were largely written by yourself and Jack Starr. How would you describe your creative partnership at that time and who handled what aspects of the songs?
DD: It was very fruitful straightaway. We clicked musically, so putting stuff together was not very difficult. Sometimes Jack had some lyrics and things of that nature. Other times he didn’t, so I came in with my stuff. Each song was its own story. Then we played, the four of us, and kind of shaped everything. Like I said, it was all done really, really rather quickly because we were in there within about three weeks and made that record in a little bit less than a week. It was very, very fast.
On this anniversary edition are newly remixed and remastered versions of early demos as well, including “The Lesson”, “Life of Crime”, and “Burn the Sun”. Are these the same versions that appeared on the 1982 demo or alternates?
DD: These are the original…we did the first record. That was eight track, the first album. We went into a very small four track studio and did these other demo things. That studio was funny. It was inside of a used car lot. *laughs* It was really cool. We just did it all in one night, blasted through that stuff. Those were really rough sounding tracks, so I tried to resurrect them and give them a bit more focus if possible, but that was difficult. You had the drums and bass on one track and things were kind of merged together because it was only four tracks, the way we did it. Finally, we got to do Guardians, and finally that was 24 tracks. That was easier to bring back to where I wanted it to be than the first album and those demos.
I have to ask because we hear it so many times when bands do these remasters and reissues, but were these “lost demos”, or did you have them in your back pocket with the intention of working on them one day?
DD: No, they weren’t lost. I knew exactly where they were *laughs*. I know where everything is that we’ve ever done, that I’ve ever done! I’m very meticulous in keeping track of all that stuff. I’m kind of notorious for making sure I’ve got every little last scrap of whatever we’ve done somewhere, or don’t leave it in the studio. Take that! A lot of bands do that and they lose stuff. The studio closes, they throw shit out, and you’re doomed.
You’re more organized than most, because I can’t tell you how many guys I’ve spoken with where it’ll be along the lines of, “I hadn’t heard these tapes in 40 years. This guy found them in his storage locker in Sweden and called me up saying, “You’re never gonna believe what I found!”” I’ve heard that story so many times, or a variation of it.
DD: *laughs* That’s great though that they do find it!
Something I’ve always found interesting about the debut is that it was released independently, which isn’t something that happened often in the metal scene at that time. I always felt with “Children of the Storm” appearing on the U.S. Metal Vol. II compilation, the band would’ve inked a deal with Shrapnel. How did the band go about this process of releasing an independent album?
DD: That’s a good question. We were like, “OK, people like this from the cassette.” We were making, home taping…”Home taping is killing music. So are Venom.” Remember that ad? *laughs*
Of course!
DD: We were home taping the record and sending it out. As I said, people liked it and we were getting writeups, so I found some place called called Modern Album that could press up the vinyl and brought everything over there. I got it mastered and we did it. I think we pressed 5,000 pieces and sold the bulk of them from my Camaro. I had this red Camaro I’d drive around. I put boxes of the albums and I’d drive to different distributors around the area and send stuff overseas. They sold out rather quickly, so we pressed up another 5,000. Before that second batch was done, we had a deal with Music for Nations in Europe and Mongol Horde in the States, so it was all lightning speed. We just figured, if people liked this thing, let’s just do it. Let’s go for it. Why wait? A lot of bands would go, “Oh, it’s not perfect.” Yeah, we know it’s not perfect. Who gives a shit? Let’s just go and get on with the show. That was our energy.
Also featured on the Virgin Steele anniversary edition is a brand new song entitled “Hell from Beyond the Stars”, which I think will surprise many people. To my ear, it sounds very reminiscent of Exorcist’s Nightmare Theatre. How did this song come about? Furthermore, in the years since Nightmare Theatre, was there ever any consideration of a followup?
DD: To answer your second question first, yeah. Edward (Pursino) and I sat down and we started actually…they’re on cassette, so we compiled a bunch of stuff that could be, eventually, a second Exorcist record. If we were gonna do something like that, we would need to make it in the exact conditions the first one was. We rehearsed that for about two weeks or so, went into the studio, and had it recorded and mixed in three days. That’s the approach I would go for again if we were gonna do something like that.
Going back to the first question, yeah, that was pretty much intentional. I was thinking, “What am I gonna do for bonus material?” Even before I got to remixing the record, I was just remembering what the original record sounded like and that vibe. I was like, “What’s gonna be a song like that which I could do that fits in? Maybe something along the lines of Exorcist, Original Sin, Piledriver, that sort of shit.” So I went in there with that goal in mind, to craft something that would easily fit on one of those records. That’s how that track came about.
I’m glad to know I wasn’t alone in that thought! I think headbangers are going to be pleasantly surprised when they hear it.
DD: Cool man! There’s a video for that, a very strange video *laughs*. There’s 8 videos, actually 9 including a trailer explaining what’s in the videos. Yes, that’s all gonna be unleashed over the next week or two.
In between the self titled and Guardians, Virgin Steele partook in the iconic World War III shows at the Paramount Theatre in Staten Island, New York. You played alongside Manowar and were described on the flyer as “the only power metal band with nerve to take the same stage”. What are your memories of those shows?
DD: Oh, all good! A lot of fun, a lot of energy. I loved that room. The Paramount Theatre was outstanding, a huge, huge place. The audience was mega. The aura was endlessly new at that point in time. For me, there were no expectations of where it was going. I was just like, “I’m jumping in and I’m gonna enjoy this and see wherever it leads.” People were great. The audience was great. Manowar was great. We developed a friendship with them and then they brought us to Europe with them. When we did the Noble Savage album, we went on the road with them.
I found it interesting to see Virgin Steele described as “power metal” as early as ’83. Do you recall the first time you heard the term “power metal” used to describe Virgin Steele’s music?
DD: I couldn’t say that I remember. I didn’t necessarily think of us in those terms. I thought, OK, we’re in the traditional Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, Queen, Mountain: That kind of thing and going on from there. Then, we realized, I realized, that something else was going on, once that first album came out and other bands were coming out of the woodwork, like Venom and Mercyful Fate and so and so forth. We knew something different was happening, but I wasn’t quite sure where we fit into that scheme of things.
Like I said, we were coming from this other tradition, but people didn’t initially hear that in the music, maybe because it was so raw and we didn’t capture it in this very pristine manner, so it took on another color, another avenue. I don’t know still what to say about it because now what they’re labeling…in the ’90s, power metal was all about, we were labeled that, but also bands like Helloween and Gamma Ray, which is a very different thing. I didn’t think that we really fit into that thing because we didn’t sound like them. I don’t think Manowar did either. I thought we were sort of like a different branch on that tree. Whatever, call it what you well.
That’s why I came up with the “barbaric-romantic” thing. I think that’s more fitting to what we do because we have that classical element, which was hinted at on the first album with “Minuet in G Minor”, “Children of the Storm”, and the song “Virgin Steele”, but there was a lot of that bluesy thing, which is also still there in Virgin Steele. I always loved it. I was always listening to Howlin’ Wolf, Muddy Waters, and all that stuff way back when. I still don’t really think of myself necessarily a heavy metal singer. I always thought of myself as more of a high octane blues singer, like those guys. Actually, I think of myself as a human guitar. That’s always been my approach. I wanted to be Jimmy Page with my voice, that kind of thing *laughs*. It was a different ideology than that “power metal” thing, but call it what you will.
By the time we get to Guardians of the Flame, there seems to be a shift from the standard heavy metal of the debut towards what we know today as the classic Virgin Steele sound. There’s powerful riffing, atmospheric synths, grandiose arrangements, and more. Was this a conscious effort on the band’s behalf, or rather a natural musical evolution?
DD: I think it was a bit of both, and the evolution happened really quickly. From the first album to Guardians, it’s not like there was years and years in between. We were going that way and that’s where I wanted to go because I loved bands like Queen. That second Queen album with all those wild harmonies and stuff like that, that really appealed to me. The piano vying for Brian May’s guitar in and out, that kind of thing, that was right up my alley. That’s where I wanted to go because I played classical music, so I wanted to bring all that in.
I love the Rainbow stuff with Tony Carey’s synths and all that stuff, the early Dio years. Yeah, we wanted to definitely go and explore that and go beyond. Then, we got to Noble Savage, Age of Consent, The Marriage of Heaven and Hell, and just pushed in that direction. I think what Virgin Steele is…it’s a harkening back to that blues thing that I mentioned a moment ago. I call it the “bones of the mountain” sound, that sort of primal, primitive thing, combined with, coming out of that, the classical and the operatic thing. I wanted to fuse that in the ears and in my mind. That’s what I was going for. Edward Pursino, who came onboard in ’84 for the Noble Savage album, he was really into that as well, right by my side on that.
Speaking of synths, Guardians is an album where I’ve always felt the keys are as crucial as the guitar work. When did you first start playing keyboards and who were your biggest influences?
DD: I started the normal piano lessons at the age of 8. Then, I joined a rock band as a vocalist at the age of 11, so I’ve been doing this for quite a while. Back then, I took a lot of inspiration from Jimmy Page, both for the voice and attacking the keyboards. I originally was supposed to be a guitar player. I wanted to be a guitar player, but no one would let me play the guitar at that point in time. I channeled that guitar energy into the voice and into the keyboards, so I play like that and I think like that on the instrument.
Zeppelin was a big influence. Of course, Queen was. There was a band called Angel I loved back then. UFO, which always had keyboards. Rainbow, as I mentioned before. Purple, of course, and that whole ilk. I did like Keith Emerson. I liked what he was doing. I wasn’t always in love with everything that they (Emerson, Lake & Palmer) did, but as a player, yeah. They were really like a power metal band on those first early records, that kind of a thing. And then really just Beethoven, Chopin, Debussy, that’s what I was listening to and studying and whatnot at lessons, so I tried to fuse all of that stuff in there.
Which songs off Guardians are you most proud of and why?
DD: Probably the title track. I remember listening to that playback in the studio when we did the final mix and being astounded that we managed to do something like that. That kind of brought all of that together in one 7 minute epic. I’m definitely proud of that one. “Don’t Say Goodbye (Tonight)” is something that I still enjoy today that was a crafted, more “commercial” bit. “Cry in the Night” appeals to me to a certain extent as well, and “The Redeemer”.
You mentioned how fast the first Virgin Steele album came together. How fast did Guardians come together in the studio?
DD: Well, we were starting to do some of those songs like “Burn the Sun”, “Birth Through Fire”, when we had finished the first record. The arrangements changed and it took a little different direction by the time we went into the studio to do that. I guess…we definitely rehearsed for a few months because we were also doing gigs and whatnot. Even though the second record wasn’t out, we were playing some of those songs in the live situation, so we’d find a way with them, they grew, and we’d then go into the studio and get more familiar with what we were gonna do, what we were gonna lay down, like it was when The Doors made their first record. All that stuff was woodshedded in clubs and whatnot.
Nowadays, a lot of people won’t go out and play new music in front of an audience. We still will. I still do that. We’re always jamming and improvising and going off on these tangents. That’s that blues element that I love. That’s what I find missing sometimes from the metal thing today. Everything is well structured and crafted. Everybody wants to show and all that, but we always leave those moments still, to this day, of where might it go? It might go this way. It might go that way. Tonight we’re feeling this. If I didn’t have that somewhere in the show, I wouldn’t want to be on the stage. I don’t want to be just regurgitating the thing. You can put on the record if you want that. It’s always gonna go somewhere else as you respond to the energy from what you’re seeing in the audience. Some faces light up. Sometimes they don’t *laughs*. You’re flying without a net. You’re a trapeze artist without a net when you’re onstage. That’s the fun of it.
Are there any other Virgin Steele albums you could see getting the “anniversary edition” treatment in the future?
DD: Probably, yeah. We could do that with The Marriage stuff. We could do that with pretty much anything. I think Marriage, or maybe even…I’ve got a lot more stuff and a lot of visual stuff from the Life Among the Ruins era. That could be its own chapter. That was a puzzling era for some people who were expecting another Noble Savage, when we first did Life Among the Ruins. It wasn’t so well received by the old guard, but all the new people who only discovered the band with that record really liked it, and they really liked it in the States. Now, it’s one of those classic records. Sometimes that happens with the Virgin Steele albums. It takes a while to understand what we were doing and get with it, so I think that would be a fun thing to do. Like I said, I’ve got a lot of footage. We did that visual thing, that Tale of the Snakeskin Voodoo Man. There’s a lot more footage we shot during that whole 6 months long thing we were working on, so yeah, eventually. There could be new stuff. Yeah *laughs*.
In closing, what does the rest of 2024 have in store for Virgin Steele?
DD: We’re doing this festival in Germany on Saturday, the Trveheim Festival. We’re doing that one. Then, we’re supposed to be doing some more venue type dates in the Autumn and Winter in Italy and other such places. We’re in the midst of sorting that out, but we will also be doing…I’ve been recording everything from personal stuff, gig stuff. I wanna make our version of The Song Remains the Same, our movie, our document of the band. I’m stockpiling footage for that, audio for that. I wanna do something of that nature, and maybe with that, I’ve got some stuff that might not fit on any other record, but would be its own EP, its little 7, 8, 9 song studio EP, as well as all this other live stuff. That’s something I’m thinking about. Eventually, a live DVD thing, besides this movie. And like I said, we’re already working on what will be this next album or two. Whatever is finished first will be issued first. We’ll see how it goes.
The anniversary editions of Virgin Steele and Guardians of the Flame are available now on Steamhammer. For more information on Virgin Steele, visit www.virgin-steele.com.