Jack Starr has long been a staple of the US metal scene. He first rose to fame in the early 80s as the founder and guitarist of Virgin Steele. By the mid 80s, he’d embark upon a successful solo career, as well as form a new band named Burning Starr. Despite various personnel changes, Jack has kept Burning Starr, well, burning! The band is about to release their eighth studio album, and arguably their darkest yet, Souls of the Innocent. We had the chance to sit down with Starr to discuss this new album, new lineup, and Virgin Steele’s unintentional impact on metal as a whole.
Greetings Jack and welcome to Defenders of the Faith! How are you doing today?
Jack Starr: I’m doing great man! It’s an honor to be here and to talk to all the metalheads in Chicago.
Yes, we love you up here in Chicago! Where are you based these days?
JS: Right now I’m calling from central Florida.
Nice! I’d like to start by congratulating you on the upcoming new record, Souls of the Innocent. Could you give us a little bit of background on this album? When did things start coming together in terms of writing and recording?
JS: We started around 2018 and 2019. We started actually putting it together in 2020 and 2021. We really just finished with it about 6 or 7 months ago. This whole album was done during the COVID thing, when it was raging and people were afraid to associate and hang out together. We had to persevere. We wanted to get it done and that’s what we did.
Did the pandemic happen to impact the music and lyrics of this album as well?
JS: Yes, I think that’s a good point. Obviously, it wasn’t a happy time for America or for the world. There was a lot of gloom and doom out there. It influenced the way we wrote these songs and they way we interpreted them. It’s probably our most pessimistic sounding album. Maybe that’s the wrong word, but it’s a dark album.
I was going to save this question for later, but while we’re on the topic, I may as well ask it now. While much of this album stays true to the old school power metal tradition, there’s some Black Sabbath inspired cuts such as “I Am the Sinner” and “Road to Hell”. Did you ever cross paths with Sabbath? How much of an influence were they on you?
JS: They were a very big influence. Probably one of the very first metal concerts that I ever saw was Black Sabbath, I believe in 1970. It was their first tour of America. I think I was too young to get into the club, but they let me in anyway. It made a big impression on me. They were so incredibly heavy and intense. Even the audience made an impression on me. There were people literally being carried out on stretchers because of the intensity of the moment and the fact that maybe they were doing drugs or drinking excessively or all these factors combined. It was almost like a glimpse into hell. It was pretty shocking actually. It was shocking, but I liked it.
That must have been like a musical forbidden fruit, yet it lured you in anyways.
JS: Absolutely yes!
And it obviously lured so many others as well, because here we are now 52 years after that first Sabbath album with two zillion metal subgenres. It’s truly remarkable.
JS: Definitely.
Getting back to the topic at hand, this is the first Burning Starr album to feature the vocal talents of Alex Panza of Hitten. When did you two first cross paths? How does he compare to past Burning Starr singers?
JS: Alex has a natural, great, God given voice. That’s number 1. There’s a lot of people that can effectuate good singing because they have a cool sounding voice. Mick Jagger, he’s got that cool tone. Alice Cooper, he’s got that *sings* “I’m eighteen!” and it’s cool. Then you’ve got people like Ronnie James Dio, like the former singer in our band Todd Michael Hall, like other singers that have been in Burning Starr like Mike Tirelli, that actually have a really great God given voice. Alex has that and he also has a cool goodie side to him.
He told me a couple of times that he was influenced by Rhett Forrester who was in Riot. Alex brings that to the table. He brings this really powerful voice and really good range. He’s probably got a 3 or 4 octave vocal range. Then he brings in a nice amount of grittiness and phrasing, which is cool. You can tell that Alex has not been one of these people that’s totally turned off to the blues. I think that’s a good thing. Blues teaches us phrasing and feeling and soul. There’s nothing wrong with incorporating some of that into metal, the way Tony Iommi did, and the way David Coverdale does, and the way we do it in Burning Starr as well.
I definitely hear that Rhett Forrester influence in his voice, which is ironic considering Rhett was one of your collaborators from way back in the day. Those Riot albums he did always had a bit of a bluesy, soulful streak to them. Did you find it easy then to work with him creatively, as you both shared that love for the blues?
JS: Absolutely. Rhett and I could have put together a southern rock band if we wanted to. We had that thing going on. It wasn’t something that we labored at. It just came naturally. Rhett was great. All of the singers in Burning Starr have been uniformly great, every single one. Frank Vestry, Shmoulik Avigal, all of them. Obviously Alex had some really big shoes to fill. I think he’s coming through really well. The people out there who are reading your site in Chicago and all the great metal towns are gonna weigh in over the next month or 2. They’re gonna let their feelings be known. I’m think they’re really gonna dig Alex’s voice.
Speaking for myself, I loved that Hitten album that came out last year, which of course musically is very different. It’s a bit more glammy and on the traditional side of things. Hearing his voice on a dark power metal album goes to show you the dynamics you’re working with.
JS: Yeah, he can do it all. Alex can probably do a Def Leppard album tomorrow if he wanted to. We can even get doomier and he would handle that well. Or we could even get bluesier. The guy’s got potential. Everybody in Burning Starr is old enough to be his father, which is kind of funny *laughs*. We’re not, but we could be! He’s a great guy. He really is. I really have to also give props to the bass player in Burning Starr, Ned Meloni, for really working wtih Alex via Skype and Zoom calls and all that.
At first, we were a little bit concerned about Alex’s accent when he sings in English. Ned is a perfectionist. I’m not. I admit it, but Ned is. Ned and Alex spent countless hours, dozens of phone calls, working on every line on the album. I think it paid off. I have no problem with Alex’s pronunciation or anything. And even the times when it does sound a little European, it reminds me of Klaus Meine from Scorpions. I used to get a kick out of it when I would hear Klaus sing some of these Scorpions songs with the German accent.
I thought it was cool, even when he would introduce stuff on the live albums. He’d say stuff like, “Zis next one ist called “Zteamrok Feva”!” I’m like, “What is he talking about? Oh, “Steamrock Fever”!” It was that German accent. I was like, “Man, this is cool!” Or Loudness! “Rock and roll crrrazy nights!” You hear that accent, but it’s cool!
This is technically the second album you’ve released this year, the first being your solo album, Swimming in Dirty Water. For those who might not be aware, what are the biggest differences between your solo career and Burning Starr?
JS: The solo career is a more bluesy thing. It’s not really targeting the same audience. It’s something that I’m almost compelled to do. It’s like I want to get out the bluesy or more classic rock side of me. I’m really happy that I have an outlet to do it. There’ is a solo album that’s gonna come out probably next year. It’s a rock album, but this (the new Burning Starr) is not a rock album. Burning Starr does not play rock. We play metal. I want to make that clear because there are some bands that are great bands. They just don’t happen to play metal. Burning Starr plays metal.
Growing up, who were your favorite bands and guitarists? Was there any one guitarist that made you say, “This is what I want to do with the rest of my life.”?
JS: Oh boy, there’s so many. I love Leslie West. When Mountain came out, I was blown away. I wanted to sound like this guy. Then there was Ten Years After with Alvin Lee. He was playing all these really fast triplets. I said, “Wow, I wish I could do that!” Of course, I heard Tony Iommi and I liked what he was doing with the whole very dark thing that was going on, just to hear that in music. And then (Ritchie) Blackmore of course and the harmonic minor scales. He had that middle eastern thing that he had going on with songs like “Gates of Babylon”.
Then I would listen to Brian May of Queen, and go like, “Oh my God! This guy is amazing the way he orchestrates all these guitars!” He’d play 3 or 4 guitar parts and they’d all sound so seamless and flawless. I’ve been influenced by a lot of people, and of course, the blues: B.B. King, Albert King, and so on. Stevie Ray Vaughan is a big favorite of mine as well.
For many headbangers, you first made a name for yourself with Virgin Steele. When most people think of New York and that era, they think of the punk scene. However, by the early 80s, metal bands such as Riot, The Rods, Zebra, Manowar, and yourselves were taking hold. What are your memories of the early NY metal scene?
JS: And Twisted Sister! They were huge in New York when I was really coming up and starting my first bands and all that. I would say my earliest recollection was that I was really proud to see so many guys, contemporaries of mine, people my age, putting together bands, rocking out, and going toe to toe with the English headbangers. I was listening to the early Maiden albums and bands like Angel Witch, Budgie, Motörhead, that whole school of rock. I was also listening to what was coming out of America. Jag Panzer was putting out their first album around then. It was a really exciting time to be playing music. I felt we were part of something, and that was cool as well.
How did Virgin Steele first come together?
JS: I formed the band in 1981 with the drummer, Joey Ayvazian. I had a good rapport with Joey. He was very open minded. I don’t know if he had been really that exposed to the whole British scene, but I got him exposed. I said, “Check this out. Look at this Melody Maker. Look at Kerrang!. Look at Sounds. Look what’s going on over there. It’s so cool! We need to be part of that!” Joey was like, “Yeah dude! This is it!” We went about looking for a singer. We held auditions and it was hard because most of the people that were coming to the auditions didn’t even know about this whole new scene.
We narrowed it down to a couple of people. One of the songs we did at the auditions was Deep Purple’s “Child in Time”, which has some amazing screams. This guy, Dave DeFeis, came down, nailed it all, and impressed us. He also played keyboards, so that was a bonus. I think he said, “Listen, I know some people. There’s a couple of bass players I know.” He led us to the bass player (Kelly Nickels). That was really the beginnings of Virgin Steele. I had already written some songs from demos that I had made, including some songs that wound up on the first Virgin Steele album; songs like “Danger Zone”, “Drive On Thru”, “Pictures on You”. We then adapted them to this new formation that we had going.
And we took the giant step of pressing our own album. We weren’t gonna wait for some suit at a record company to say, “You guys are good.” We did something that was very unusual in 1981. We pressed our own album. Within about 4 or 5 months after we pressed it, we were getting offers from “real labels”. We then went with Music for Nations, which was a great English metal label. We were their very first release: MFN #1. #2 was Metallica. #3 was Ratt. #4 was Mercyful Fate. In that whole first 10 of releases from this English metal label, we were the very first, and it was an American metal album at that.
I discussed this one time with one of the head honchos of that label. In my own non assuming way, I said, “Listen guys, not for nothing, but if Virgin Steele had failed miserably as your first release ever, would you guys have then put out the subsequent albums that came after? Or would you have been like, “Oh, this sucks. It’s not the right time for metal.”?” I wanted this guy to give us a pat on the back. That’s what we as musicians like. We want someone to pat us on the shoulder and say, “Hey, good job!” He did and that was cool.
You definitely have a point, even on the financial side of things. Had that first Virgin Steele record been a flop, would they have had the monies to put out Metallica and Mercyful Fate and so on?
JS: That was the point I was driving at. In fact, the same guy that signed us, a guy named Martin Hooker, started his own label called Secret Records. He signed Twisted Sister for Under the Blade, their very first album. The way the whole story went down was he was gonna sign Virgin Steele as well, but then they broke off into 2 labels. Martin Costello did Music for Nations and then with Secret Records, I think Twisted Sister’s contract got bought out. It was all kind of incestuous, but it was cool. We were really happy that we were part of that whole thing. It’s definitely in the history books that Virgin Steele is MFN #1. That’s the catalog number. You can’t forget that one *laughs*!
When I think of those early Virgin Steele records, I think of both your guitar playing and the voice of Dave DeFeis. What is your current relationship like with him? Would you two ever collaborate again?
JS: Absolutely I would. We obviously had a love-hate relationship. Anytime you dissolve a partnership, there’s always gonna be some feelings that are gonna be flustered. There’s gonna be recriminations and stuff like that, but the bottom line is Dave DeFeis is a major talent. Even if he’s not maybe singing as great as he did 40 years ago, that is totally besides the point. He is a major talent with an incredible feel for music, a feel for phrasing, and he still has a damn good voice. Why the hell not? They said the Eagles could never get back together. I think they even made a joke about it and called one of the albums Hell Freezes Over. So anything is possible. Dave, if you’re reading this, I have no problem with you brother. Keep doing what you’re doing and God bless you!
That’s exactly what the fans wanted to hear! I had read that somewhere between Virgin Steele and your solo endeavors, you auditioned for KISS. What was that experience like and what songs did you play?
JS: My audition for KISS was not your typical audition because I was on the phone with Bill Aucoin, KISS’s manager, and I had been recommended by guitar label Shrapnel Records. That was Mike Varney, who put me on the U.S. Metal Vol. II album, along with a lot of people like Marty Friedman of Megadeth and a whole bunch of others. Anyways, I talked to Aucoin and said, “Want me to come down to New York City and audition in a rehearsal studio?” He goes, “No, Eric (Carr) lives on Long Island. He and Gene (Simmons) will come down to see you play. When are you playing next?” I said, “Well, Virgin Steele are gonna be doing a show at a place called the Stage at Deer Park, Long Island.”
Sure enough, they came down. It was a good experience. I obviously didn’t get the gig, for a lot of reasons. I talked to Gene afterwards and Gene said, “Hey, don’t feel bad. You’re just not right for the part.” I go, “The part?” He goes, “Yeah, KISS is more than just joining a band because of your musical abilities or how well you play guitar. It’s about if you fit the image and the part to be in KISS.” At the time, I was like, “Oh, OK.” But in retrospect, I’m 5 foot 5. I was about 20 pounds overweight back then. I really didn’t fit their image.
When those guys walked into the club, Gene towered over every single person in that club. We were on stage and I saw them walk in. You had a clear shot because that’s how tall he was. What a commanding presence Gene Simmons was. I understood and it was fine. I was happy that I got a chance to play for Gene and Eric. I had known Eric before and his girlfriend who was a great singer, Pantera, not to be confused with the band of the same name. They came down and all was cool.
In fact, I remember Eric coming to my house with his girlfriend. My son, who was 2 years old at the time, was asleep. I showed Eric my son’s KISS dolls. He had that set with Gene in the little silver booties and all that. The next day, I’m telling my son, “He was here last night when you were sleeping!” I’m trying to make him understand, and my son’s going, “What? KISS?” I go, “Yeah!” *laughs* It was a cool experience and all was well with that. Honestly, I’m kind of glad I didn’t get the gig. I would’ve been way too young and immature to handle it. God knows if I would even still be alive and talking to you. That’s my comment on that.
That’s fair. As much as I love that era of KISS, especially Creatures of the Night, it was a very turbulent time in KISStory.
JS: You’re absolutely right. And honestly, that wasn’t so much my generation, KISS. I love a lot of the KISS material, but my generation was more Zeppelin, Sabbath, and that whole thing. Thin Lizzy, Uriah Heep, in other words, I listened to the people that KISS listened to. My influences are probably the same influences as Paul Stanley. It was all good, really. Now, with the passage of time, I actually like KISS a lot better than I did back then. Go figure!
One thing I’ve noticed about certain Burning Starr albums, specifically Rock the American Way and the self titled, is that there’s a slight glam metal touch throughout. Did you ever feel hesitation, whether it be creatively or otherwise, to fully embrace that route?
JS: Well number 1, I never thought I was good looking enough *laughs*. It wasn’t for me, but our singer at the time, Mike Tirelli, definitely had the glam looks. That was cool and we didn’t wanna stop him. The bass player in our band at the time, whose name was William “Free Bass” Fairchild, but everyone called him Free Bass. It wasn’t so much a drug reference as much as he was a free individual and he played bass. Anyway, Free Bass had this whole other image going on which was this gothic thing that was going on with L.A. Guns and Bang Tango and all these bands that had a gothic vampire look. He had black hair and even work black eye makeup. I had the same image I have now, kind of a normal look. Everybody in the band was embracing a different look, but there was a little flirtation with the glam thing on Rock the American Way. The singer on that, Frank Vestry, brought that vocally too because he had that really great, west coast sounding, radio friendly voice. So yeah, we flirted with that a little bit.
Of those classic 80s albums, do you have a favorite out of that bunch? If so, why?
JS: My favorite album that we did in the 80s was No Turning Back! (1986). I just think that album came together very well. The songs are really cool. Mike sounded amazing on that album, just incredible. It’s a really great album. It’s funny because one of the writers for Kerrang! listed it as one of the top 10 or 20 worst album covers of the 80s. I thought that was kind of hilarious. Why was it one of the worst album covers? You know what, as long they talk about you, I was cool with it. On the positive side, we got some really great reviews, including from Kerrang! who put it in the top 20 metal albums of the year. Metal Forces and Burrn! from Japan loved it too. We got some really amazing reviews and we got a lot of credibility from it. People realized that we could go head to head with any of the metal bands like Dio, Ozzy, and so on and so forth. That felt good. It felt good to read that and meet the fans and know that we’re an influence.
I had to ask because No Turning Back! has always been my personal favorite. I put it on the turntable this week and it’s such a great, straightforward American metal record. You can’t go wrong there.
JS: Absolutely! And since you’re wearing an Armored Saint shirt, it’s got that feel to it too. That was another band that really held the flag of the new wave of American heavy metal. We thought we were doing that with No Turning Back! and Blaze of Glory. We were throwing it back at the British saying, “Hey, we can do this too!” Just like Riot did with some of those glorious albums that they put out. Mark Reale was a force to be reckoned with, and they’re still a great band. I just call Riot V “Riot”, because that’s what they are. They’re great and Todd fits them like a glove. I say more power to them.
In closing, are there any plans for upcoming live shows, whether they be here stateside or on the euro fest circuit?
JS: Yes, absolutely. Our new manager, Giles Lavery, is on the forefront of that whole scene. He manages Alcatrazz and Girlschool and a bunch of other bands that play regularly on these festivals. Our label, Global Rock, would like to see Burning Starr come to Europe and play those festivals. We really want to do that as well. We had a taste of it in the last 10 years. We played a bunch of festivals. It’s just been so good to meet the fans and play and know that the music that we love is definitely alive and well.
Definitely. It’s an interesting point you make, considering throughout the 90s and 2000s, there was a bit of a lull in regards to traditional metal and hard rock. Now, in the past 15 years or so, there’s been this explosion of thousands who show up to fests like Keep it True and the likes.
JS: Right, we’re happy that we’re still kicking it and looking forward to doing more of it!
The new Jack Starr’s Burning Starr album, Souls of the Innocent, comes out Friday, July 15, on Global Rock Records. For more information on Burning Starr, visit www.facebook.com/jackstarrsburningstarr.