If you had told John Bush in the early ’80s, when Armored Saint and W.A.S.P. were sharing club stages together, that both bands would be around 40 years later and still sharing bills, he’d probably be the last to believe it. But alas, this is where we find ourselves in 2024. In a matter of days, W.A.S.P. will be hitting the road to celebrate the 40th anniversary of their legendary self titled debut, and they’re bringing their partners in crime, Armored Saint, along for the ride. We sat down with Armored Saint frontman John Bush to discuss this upcoming jaunt, 40 years of March of the Saint, and the band he almost sang for.
Greetings John and welcome to Defenders of the Faith! How are you doing today?
John Bush: I’m good! I’m at my house here in Los Angeles. I’m doing awesome.
Awesome! I’m calling you from Chicago and I want to thank you for taking the time to do this interview. I was supposed to interview you last year, but yours truly came down with COVID, so thanks for running it back this year!
JB: I hope you’re feeling better now!
Much better, and I’m sure you’re feeling great. Armored Saint is about to hit the road with fellow L.A> metal veterans, W.A.S.P., on the 40th anniversary tour for their debut album. Do you recall the first time you saw W.A.S.P. or crossed paths with Blackie Lawless?
JB: Oh yeah, I remember seeing W.A.S.P. live at the Troubadour. I was five rows back. He (Blackie) was throwing the meat out. It was the classic show with the fire. We were blown away. It was really amazing. It’s funny. We have a history through the years of playing shows together. We played the Troubadour itself a couple times together. We played the Country Club, which is a great venue in the Valley here in Los Angeles, San Fernando Valley. We played Perkins Palace, which is a big theater in Pasadena, where some parts of This is Spinal Tap were filmed. We have a lot of history with W.A.S.P., and we created some new history with them by doing that first tour that we did, that was really awesome.
We were actually supposed to do this leg and then things kind of went south. Blackie had to take care of himself physically, which is most important. Then, they booked a tour and we had went to do something else, Queensrÿche in particular. That kind of went south for them (W.A.S.P.) regarding some of the support acts, Death Angel and Unto Others. I don’t know what happened there. It’s none of my business. I just know Armored Saint was asked to come back on the tour *laughs*, so here we are! We’re coming back to play in St. Charles, your neck of the woods, which will be great. That’s an awesome venue (Arcada Theatre) and we always have a lot of fun doing shows there.
Yeah, you guys are doing two night at the Arcada!
JB: We gotta change up the set there. You can’t play the same songs. That would be lame, so we will do that!
That’s a perfect segue into the next question. When I saw Armored Saint earlier this year with Queensrÿche, you managed to play roughly one song from every Armored Saint album. Can we expect a similar approach for this tour?
JB: I try to do that. I think it’s really cool. We don’t have that many records, so it’s something that’s doable. For the most part, you do have to play a couple songs from specific records, so I get that. I always try to do at least one song off every record. Of course, it just depends on the set length, what maybe you played last time you were in that particular area. I always look at Setlist.FM on my phone and go, “Oh, we played that?” I don’t know. I hope it’s accurate. “We played that. We didn’t play that. Let’s change it around!” I’m always changing it up, sometimes to the chagrin of the guys in the band. They’re like, “Wait, what?! We’re changing the set? We just got a good groove and now you’re changing it?” I’m like, “Yeah, let’s change it.” There’s a lot of reoccurring fans that come to multiple shows. The want to hear different songs. I want to appease them.
Expanding upon that, how does the band go about putting a setlist together? With eight studio albums and a classic EP to your name, I can’t imagine it being that easy.
JB: Well, you have to do some of the hits, without a doubt. Some of the big video songs, obviously the ones that were the most popular songs from specific records, but I do like going into deep tracks sometimes. I get annoyed if I go see a band and it’s just the same set all the time and it’s not very adventurous. You just have to kind of connect the songs together. You obviously want to play some classics, but it’s fun to play some deep tracks that people will be like, “Wow! I can’t believe they played that. That is so cool.” I think it’s that combination that’s the most important thing to do. Otherwise, if you tour enough, you’ll end up playing the same songs a lot and that becomes not only boring for fans, but boring for the band.
This year isn’t just the 40th anniversary of W.A.S.P.’s debut, but the 40th anniversary of Armored Saint’s debut album as well, March of the Saint. What memories first come to mind from the writing and recording of that album?
JB: It was cool. We were in a very big studio on Sunset Boulevard called Ocean Way doing the majority of the tracking there. It was a very expensive studio. There were times when we were saying, “This is really amazing, but it seems like it should probably be a lot of money. Is it a lot of money? I think it is.” We were all 20 years old at the time for the most part and not really paying attention to budgets. We didn’t care. We were just having fun. Everybody was making big budgeted records at that time in the early to mid ’80s. We felt this was the right thing to do. It wasn’t until later that you got the bill and you were like, “Woah! What?!” *laugh* We should’ve known when Supertramp was in one studio and Barbra Streisand was in another, and then there’s Armored Saint, and we were like, “What are we doing here?” It was really cool to do it there. It was a beautiful place.
A lot of legendary records were produced there. It’s still there. I think it’s a different name. It was cool. We worked with Michael James Jackson, who was off the heels of doing a couple KISS records, Creatures of the Night and Lick It Up, that we liked. We thought he was gonna do a good job. In the end, I think he was a little distracted and didn’t quite capture the garage sounding style of the band. We were always a very raw band. We still are. I think that record is probably a little too polished for my taste, but it’s the way the record came out and I think there’s some great tracks on it. It’s the legendary debut album of Armored Saint.
What are your favorite songs off March of the Saint and why?
JB: I was a little partial to “Stricken by Fate”. That was one of our first songs we ever wrote as a band. “Glory Hunter” was a cool tune. Obviously, “Mad House” and “March of the Saint” are great songs live that we still play. “Can U Deliver”, you can’t fight. The video, to this day, will make people chuckle, including myself. Yeah, there’s a lot of cool songs. I love “Seducer”. There’s a bunch of great songs on that record. A couple that were meh, but I won’t say which ones those are because I’ve said that before and people go, “I love that song man!” *laughs*
Backtracking to what you said about recording in a big studio and having a big budget, what events took place that led to that leap from Metal Blade to Chrysalis?
JB: At that point, we were one of many bands in the Los Angeles scene that were happening. The list goes on: Ratt, Great White, Black ‘n Blue, Steeler. There were so many. It seemed like every label was snagging one. Chrysalis just happened to snag Armored Saint. It was kind of a trendy time to be part of L.A., but it was also a really awesome time to be playing those clubs: The Roxy, Troubadour, Country Club. Like I said, it was just a happening scene. We were fortunate enough to take the step, which a lot of bands were doing, going from indies to majors at that point.
I think at that time, even in retrospect, (Brian) Slagel understood that. He knew the ambitions of most bands at that point was to take the jump from an indie to a major, kind of like going from the minor leagues to the major league in baseball, if you will. I don’t think he was offended or anything of that nature. He was like, “Hey, I helped you get there, so go.” Brian actually, he’s always been a giant supporter of Saint, but he even was the time we were on Chrysalis and making those records then. He was always in our corner, and of course is still in our corner, putting out all our records, including rereleasing March, Delirious Nomad, and Raising Fear.
It was just a natural step for bands to take that leap from an indie to a major. I knew that when we all signed our first record deal to Chrysalis, I think the next day, everybody went in and quit their day jobs. Maybe that wasn’t the smartest decision in retrospect *laughs*, but that’s what happens when you’re 20 years old.
Armored Saint’s performance in those early days were infamous for the band donning full armor onstage. Now the story I’ve heard was that a simulated sword fight nearly gone wrong led to the band retiring the armor. Is there any truth to this incident? if not, what was the straw that broke the camel’s back?
JB: Well, we only did it in one show, where I came out in the full armor and did a fight with my good friend Andy, who has unfortunately passed on. We had a nice battle up there. Of course, the choreography wasn’t quite linked up with the audio version because I was so energized that I was hitting his sword. He was like, “Dude, you’re really coming at me!” I was just jacked up on enthusiasm and adrenaline. It was like *clank* and the swords would hit. The timing was off, but it was pretty funny to watch.
We only did it in the one show because what happened was after the first song, which was “March of the Saint”, we went into intro the second song. I went off the stage. Zach, who was our main tech at that point, who actually has worked with Metallica for a few years now, he helped me get undressed and then I went back out onstage in my Armored Saint gear. I don’t think I was ever intended to be wearing armor every show. I think Dio actually did that for a tour, maybe even after us. I can’t really remember, but in any case, I think we left it for that one show.
We did always, in those first couple tours, wear the Armored Saint costumes, if you will. Looking back, it was cool. It was part of our look in those early days. Eventually, we were like, “OK, enough of this.” *laughs* Putting on cold leather in Chicago in January, it sucked *laughs*! It was a part of our history and we reflect back with positivity and definitely some laughter.
In the years since, have any festivals or promoters approached the band doing an old school set in the armor and old outfits?
JB: “Break out the armor!” *laughs* I was just talking to our tour manager on the road about that. He was like, “You gotta do it!” We did it one show where we did the Metal Blade 30th Anniversary in California at House of Blues. We came out and brought out some of our old stuff. Even Jeff (Duncan) made something, because he wasn’t in the band at that time, that looked similar to what we wore. Joey (Vera) and I donned wigs. It was pretty funny. Everybody was like, “Woah!” The curtains opened and it was like, “What the heck?!” We took it off after the first song and people started booing! It was hilarious. A part of me thinks it would be cool. I also don’t want it to be silly. It’s kind of a fine line. Who knows? Maybe!
When Metallica approached you about joining, did they do so with any songs in tow and did you ever rehearse any of those songs yourself prior to turning the gig down?
JB: Well, Ride the Lightning was the tour that we did, but before that was Kill ‘Em All. That’s when they were interested in having me come join the band. I never actually even got into a rehearsal situation with them. As flattered as I was, it just wasn’t my destiny. Armored Saint was happening and starting to go, so for me, this other band that I didn’t know too much about, it just didn’t make much sense to me to quit my band that I was in and happy with to join this other band. It wasn’t like the popularities were that different at that time. Of course, in time it did that *raises hand* *laughs*, let’s face it!
I’m always flattered. I’m talking about it and will until the end of my life, and then my kids will probably have to talk about it. (James) Hetfield, I can’t imagine him not being the voice of a metal band. That would be an enormous loss if that never happened. If I was there, that may have never happened, so that was not fate for metal, not to get too deep. But yeah, I’m always grateful. We did the one show, the Metallica 30th anniversary at the Fillmore when they played those four shows and I came out. Armored Saint actually opened that show, and then I came out and sang “The Four Horsemen” with them, which is something you can see on YouTube. They told the story and it was amazing. That’s the closest you’ll get.
Who were the other guests that night?
JB: I think Mercyful Fate was that night. Kid Rock, Lou Reed, those were some of the people that were on it. I can’t remember who else. I’d be guessing. Jason Newsted, I think he was there almost every night. It was awesome. It was amazing. Plus, Saint opened, so that was really cool.
How many shows did Armored Saint and Metallica do together back in those early days?
JB: Well, we did the Armored Saint/Metallica/W.A.S.P. tour, which still lives in infamy. We played the Aragon Ballroom on that tour in Chicago, which is a great venue. I’ve played it many times. We did that run. Prior to that, we did some club shows in L.A. The Country Club, again. We also did about 10 shows, maybe fewer than that, on the Master of Puppets/Delirious Nomad run, when they were opening for Ozzy. I think Ozzy got sick, so they did a stretch of 10 shows in a row and we opened them. We actually did the Iowa Jam festival. That was 1986. We both played there as well. We did a couple tours with them and they were always amazing.
Your voice, to this day, is an absolute force to be reckoned with. I’ve always considered it one of the most unique in metal history. What are your tips to keeping it in good shape and what is your advice to aspiring metal singers?
JB: I’m always listening to people, not just in metal, but music throughout. Anybody who’s a talented singer, I wanna get inspired by them. There’s a lot of them out there. Of course, there’s the legends: The Halfords and the Dickinsons. I love those guys. We just did a Four Tops cover and Levi Stubbs was a killer singer. He also had a rock voice for The Four Tops. To me, it’s more…sure, it’s impressive if you can have this broad range in singing. Let’s face it: Everyone still marvels at Halford and all his range. Guys like Geoff Tate and Todd La Torre can do that stuff too, but to me, it’s more about uniqueness and style.
I remember taking vocal lessons from some teacher when I was really young. Rod Stewart came up and she was like, “Rod Stewart? He’s terrible!” I was like, “What?! He’s Rod Stewart! He was in the Faces! His voice is so unique!” She goes, “His voice is terrible. It sounds terrible.” I was like, “OK, I’m not taking lessons from you ever again.” *laughs* To me, guys like Bon Scott and Lemmy for that matter, it’s all about sounding unique. Phil Lynott was an awesome singer. He just had a style. To me, that’s the most important thing in music, to have your uniqueness, so when people hear it, they go, “That’s him.” That’s what I strive to do. I just want to have my own sound.
It’s funny. You said you can’t imagine Metallica without Hetfield on vocals. I couldn’t imagine those old Faces records without Rod on vocals!
JB: I know! You know, James, I’ve said this many times, he turned out to be an incredible singer. His progression from Kill ‘Em All to the Black Album was phenomenal. He really became a great singer, and of course, a commanding frontman. That’s indisputable. When it comes to rock n’ roll, or soul, or any kind of music for that matter, unless you’re an opera singer, and even then, you probably want to have your own identity, but I think it’s just about sounding unique. It’s the same with guitar players. Everyone can shred, but how do you stand out from the crowd? What can you do in your style to differentiate from the others? Michael Schenker, Eddie Van Halen, the list goes on obviously. The same thing with singers is the same thing with guitar players. You want to have your own style, and I think that’s the most important thing. It’s more important than technical ability, as far as I’m concerned.
In closing, what is 2025 looking like for Armored Saint and when can we expect new music from the band?
JB: We’re writing some songs as we speak and we’re trying to finish some tunes. Our ambition is to get something out sooner than later. I can’t give you an exact date yet because that would be premature, but we are working on it. We are gonna do some shows here and there. We’re doing a festival, Sonic Temple in Columbus, so that’s gonna be really fun. We’re also playing a festival, Summer Breeze in Brazil. That’ll be amazing, but we’re probably spending most of the year concentrating on writing.
Armored Saint will be playing the Arcada Theatre in St. Charles, Illinois with W.A.S.P. on Friday, November 8 and Saturday, November 9. Tickets can be purchased here. For more information on Armored Saint, visit www.armoredsaint.com.