When looking at Robin George’s lengthy resume, it would be easier to list the bands and artists he hasn’t worked with over the years. Since the late ’70s, George has established himself as a world premiere singer, songwriter, guitarist, producer, engineer…there’s very little he can’t do. However, it wasn’t always like this. Before collaborating with some of the most legendary names in hard and heavy music, George was a young and hungry solo artist, sending his demos to anyone who would listen. These demos have since been compiled in a brand new archival collection, Ace in My Hand. We spoke with George about these early years, how they set the foundation for his career, and of course, his stint with Thin Lizzy.
Greetings Robin and welcome to Defenders of the Faith! How are you doing today?
Robin George: I’m doing really good! It’s good to talk to you at last mate. We’ve had a few problems and now I’ve gotta hold my phone the whole time we talk. How boring *laughs*. I like your shirt by the way *points to my Thin Lizzy Chinatown shirt*!
Thank you! I had to represent. It was between this and a Heep shirt. We’ll be talking a lot about this band later, but first, I’d like to start by congratulating you on this new archival collection, Ace in My Hand.
RG: Thank you.
This collection features some of your earliest songs, recorded between 1979 and 1981. Leading up to this period, who were your biggest musical influences? Was there any one band or artist in particular who inspired you to pursue a career in music?
RG: I grew up with The Beatles, The Stones, The Kinks, etc., who all had a rocky side. Then of course, along came Zeppelin. There was a Journey album I really loved. I love guitar players and Neal Schon is a great one. That first Foreigner album is great as well. I could go on and on, but eventually, I stopped listening to other peoples music and just thought, “Let’s see what I can do.” What you’re hearing is what came out of that time. I was so lucky to have such fabulous musicians to work with.
Dave Holland from Judas Priest, Pino Palladino from The Who, Daniel Boone who had a massive hit single: It’s all on the credits, but it’s just incredible. We used to go into the studio on downtime. It was supposedly free, but I got the bill at the end of the day, and happily paid it. It was just wonderful times. We’d play anytime day or night when the studio was free and just make the most of it. Boy did we have some rock n’ roll fun *laughs*.
How soon after you started writing your own music did these sessions come about? Was it a matter of months?
RG: Well I started writing when I was a kid really. Then, suddenly, when I hit around 16, I started writing stuff that I thought, “Well this ain’t bad.” I just carried on writing and writing and writing. We just went into the studio and met all through each other. It just felt so natural. To have, as I said, particularly, Pino, what a bass player. And Dave was such a great, great rock drummer. We were all good friends and we had good fun and a good few beers together *laughs* and rock n’ roll! It was great. One time, I remember Dave and I were in the studio for 48 hours solid. Nobody had any money. The man who owned the studio had a greenhouse full of tomatoes, so Dave and I lived on tomatoes on toast for 48 hours! We didn’t eat all the time *laughs* and we could still buy a beer.
This collection contains many songs never heard before, as well as early renditions of classic tracks, one such being “Heartline”. How far back did this song go and what was the inspiration behind it?
RG: The words tell it, I suppose, but I do remember I had a different chorus. The guy managing me at the time, Pete, said, “The verses are brilliant, but think about the chorus.” It just became “Heartline”, and suddenly it worked. Then, we went in the studio and there was no keyboard player available. What became the keyboard bit, I somehow had a mandolin. That *hums intro melody* is on mandolin of all things. In fact, it’s featured in the video, where the bass player at the time jumps through the door with a mandolin, spins around, and that was the very mandolin on the track *laughs*.
Other songs on here served as the bedrock for your debut EP, History, including its leadoff cut, “Go Down Fighting”, which was later covered by Ted Nugent. What were the circumstances that led to this cover?
RG: I was with Warner publishing. Their managing director sent it to Ted’s people and he said, “I want it!” He did it and he still does *laughs*! It’s on the album (Penetrator). Great performance. They added a verse in at the end that I find quite confusing. Funnily enough, Brian Howe, the singer, we were partying in London and I was just talking to him. I didn’t realize he was the singer with Ted Nugent. I knew he was a great singer. He said, “Oh yeah, your track “Go Down Fighting”, I worked on that.” I said, “Somebody added in an extra verse with really strange words. I didn’t quite understand it.” He said, “I wrote those words.” I went, “Oops!” *laughs*
No kidding!
RG: Yeah! I went, “I don’t understand them, but I think they’re great and it worked! It’s on Ted’s album, so rock n’ roll man!” *laughs*
Yeah, that was Brian before he joined Bad Company. I believe right before he did Nugent, he did an album with White Spirit that was shelved. Something like that.
RG: Yeah, there’s a lot of stories like that. I thought Bad Company were a fabulous band. I loved them. They were another inspiration. And Free, of course, especially considering they were just babies at the time. 16, 17, 18 and they came out with “All Right Now”. It’s just mind blowing. It still is!
Agreed. You listen to an album like Fire and Water and you’re just in awe of every riff, every hook, wondering how such talent is possible.
RG: It’s the magic of the moment.
Speaking of the magic of the moment, the pedigree of collaborators on this collection is nothing short of breathtaking, among them being Pino Palladino, Mark Stanway, Mel Collins, and then Trapese members Dave Holland and Peter Goalby. Were any of these songs intended for Trapeze and were you ever technically in the band?
RG: Not technically, but we did a few gigs. It was Dave, Pete Wright who became the bass player in Trapeze, Mo Birch as backing singer, Mark Stanway, Terry Rowley who also played keyboards in Trapeze. He used to do the upfront sound and play keyboards from the desk, so it was all very interesting. That gig was sort of Trapeze, but we called it Life because that was the name of my band. Virtually, yeah it was Trapeze. They broadcasted it live on local radio. It was amazing, really good. So yeah, yes and no *laughs*.
Does that tape still exist?
RG: Not in my records, unfortunately. I have managed to get all my BBC recordings back. I’m grateful I can use them anywhere, especially with the late Tommy Vance doing introductions on the albums. He was great to me. He really liked my stuff. He made “Heartline” his record of the year, so on and so forth, and was always a great supporter and a lovely chap, a really nice guy. He’s much missed, but Tommy Vance, cheers!
Of course, Peter Goalby wasn’t the only Uriah Heep singer you’d collaborate with, as you formed The Byron Band alongside the legendary David Byron. When did you two first meet and what was that era like?
RG: I was working at the Old Smithy Studios where I was sort of chief engineer and producer for a while. I was working with Daniel Boone and he introduced me to David. David heard me playing on something and he said, “Hey, do you fancy forming a band?” I went, “Yeah!” So we did. The very first time I met David, we all know he had a bad drinking problem. I was with the drummer Pete Thompson, and Pino was there as well at the session. We thought, “Let’s go to the pub.” David was unconscious outside the pub, absolutely sparked out.
The two of us picked him up, carried him in, and sat him down. He was just out for a while. Then he woke up and the guy driving me was sitting by David. David goes, “The fuck are you looking at?!” I go, “David, David! Calm down! He’s my friend, therefore he’s your friend.” He got it, shook his hand, and bought him a drink. There’s so many stories about David. He was a complete wild card, but also a complete professional. A great player to work with, a fabulous frontman, and a fabulous voice as we know.
Absolutely, one of the finest and first voices in metal history, for that matter. After that first album together, On the Rocks (1981), how far was The Byron Band into a second album before they ultimately called it a day?
RG: There’s a boxset coming out on Cherry Red of The Bryon Band live, and there’s bunch of live demos and then some rehearsals. The live demos were the second album. It’s a tragedy that it didn’t come out because there’s some fantastic songs on it. Again, all live David, absolutely spot on, and the rest of the band too. What basically happened, unfortunately, was we were touring. We got to the Marquee. It was the last gig of the tour. All of the major record companies were there. The Old Grey Whistle Test wanted us, and all the other rock shows were there too.
We were doing (Uriah Heep’s) “July Morning” and David hit that massively high C note and collapsed. Unbelievably, there were a couple of nurses in the front row. They said, “Get something in his mouth! He’s having an epileptic fit!” All I could think of was my guitar strap, so I put it in his mouth and it stopped him from chewing his tongue off. I was stuck to him. I was kneeling there, watching my great friend twitching away and I couldn’t go anywhere. That was kind of weird.
Anyway, they stretchered him out. As he was being stretchered, the crowd was shouting, “We love you David!” They had come from all over the world. He was waving at them and saying, “I love you too!” Then he went off in the ambulance and he was fine for a long, long time. It was a shocking, shocking moment. Nobody would book us then, so unfortunately, that was it. It was a terrible tragedy.
As a diehard Heep fan, the hairs on my arms are standing up right now. I’ve never heard that before.
RG: Haven’t you? Well it’s true, I assure you. I’ll add to it if you’re interested. Me and Bob (Jackson), the keyboard player, we went back with Gabbie, David’s beautiful wife, to his mansion. They brought him home and Gabbie opened a bottle of champagne. First sip, he went right back into a fit. We called the ambulance there so quickly. David came around again and said, “Why am I being arrested? What have I done this time?!” We were calming him down and he did get better.
He stopped drinking for a year on doctor’s orders. Obviously in the Smithy Studio, we had been recording the album. One day, he got a call from his doctor saying, “Hey! You’re cleared to drink again!” That was the beginning and the end. What a doctor. There’s a song on the album called “Doctor Doctor, What’s Your Game?”. I only discovered it recently and if you listen to the words…I’ll have to send it over to you. It’s very telling.
When The Byron Band did play shows, how much of the setlist were originals and how much was Heep?
RG: Two Heep tracks. The rest David and I wrote. We did “July Morning” and “Sweet Lorraine”. You had to do something he completely understood. Of course, it all went down a storm. When we toured, it was during major riots in the UK. We had to battle to get into the gigs and then there wouldn’t be very many people there because it was pretty damn serious. The people who were there absolutely adored it and that’s all that counts.
It was around this same era that you took up music production and engineering. Were you always curious of the technical aspect of music and in what ways did this move benefit you in the long run?
RG: Every way you could possibly think of. When I was a kid, I had a cassette deck recorder. Then I thought, “If I get another one, I can play guitar into one and sing into the other. Then copy them over and make one track.” Then I upgraded from cassettes to 4 track and 8 track and a 16 track and a beautiful studio 24 track, so I always understood. What started with engineering was we were halfway through a session at the Old Smithy yet again. The engineer had to leave suddenly, some sort of family thing. I thought, “What are we gonna do?” Then I thought, “I’ll do it!” So I did *laughs* and carried on ever since. It was a launch by fire *laughs*.
We’re grateful it did, because some great records came out of that studio, such as the “Sweet & Innocent” single from Diamond Head. What are your memories of that session?
RG: At the time, it was the very original Diamond Head. Brian Tatler was a great player. The bass and drums took quite a bit of work, I must admit. Sean (Harris) lost his voice just before the vocal and somehow pulled it back. You can hear the result. It was interesting. Good times *laughs*.
You also produced and engineered the legendary Witchfinder General, working on both Death Penalty and Friends of Hell. When did you first meet them, what were they like in the studio, and do you prefer one album to the other?
RG: I met them through Paul Birch who ran Heavy Metal Records. I somehow slipped into becoming his inhouse producer for rock bands. Some of them were great, like Wrathchild. Anyways, we met in a professional meeting and went into a studio in Coventry of all places. They were great, really good. Zeeb, the singer, well that wasn’t his real name, but he was really good and carried it off. The albums became what they became, and the front covers became quite a hit as well with Joanne (Latham) as the naked body on there. I knew her really quite well, so that came up a lot *laughs*.
Those must’ve been unique albums to work on, especially at a time when every band was trying to outdo each other in speed and aggression. You had Venom and Raven and Tank. And here was Witchfinder General, who sounded like a throwback to Sabbath, playing the slow, heavy sounds of the early 70s. Did they take you aback?
RG: Not really, because I saw a lot of live bands in that era and I could see what was emerging. I enjoyed their music and thought it was great for the time, even if it did owe much to the past decade.
I’d be remiss to not bring up Phil Lynott during this interview. When did you first cross paths with Phil? Was the prospect of working with him rather surreal, considering the impact of Thin Lizzy in the 70s?
RG: I first met Phil…I went to see Thin Lizzy in Wolverhampton, one of the best circuit gigs. I was standing at the bar, chatting with somebody and Phil stood next to me and started talking. I just thought, “He’s a nice guy.” We sort of lost touch. Then Lizzy was auditioning for a guitar player. I was told literally the afternoon before, so I stayed up all night learning all the tracks from their Alive and Dangerous album. Then we raced to London, I’m talking wrong side of the road, double over the limit, crazy stuff, up to Shepherd’s Inn where the audition was, smack on time.
The whole band was in the bar, so we hung around for half an hour and then they wandered in. We all shook hands and stuff. They didn’t do a single bloody song off the record! I was just there jamming. We had no idea what was bloody going on *laughs*. I didn’t get the job. Snowy White did, which was not a great move for him or the band. A while later, I got a call from Phil’s management saying, “Phil’s asked you to come and play on his new single, “Nineteen”. Are you interested?” “Yep! What time?” I went and did that with him. That was a great session. He stood and sang it in one take. All of the backing vocals were done in one go. Obviously, the bass was too.
He decided he wanted a motorbike revving on it. By coincidence, there was a Harley Davidson shop opposite the studio. We went in and spoke to the manager. “Could you bring this bike to have outside the studio and let Phil rev it a bit?” He started revving it. People were leaning out office windows screaming, “Shut up!” The louder they yelled, the louder he revved it *laughs*. It was crazy. It was all crazy. Going out clubbing with Phil was magical, I must tell you *laughs*.
Was “Nineteen” fully written when they called you in for that session?
RG: I remember sitting cross-legged in Phil’s bedroom with acoustic guitars and he was playing it to me. Then he got to the rap at the end. He was short of a couple of words and he asked me. I thought, “Bloody hell! Phil Lynott’s asking me for words!” So I threw him a couple of suggestions and they went in, but I didn’t claim a credit. I wouldn’t dream of doing that, but I helped a little. The guitar riff was all my idea. I said to Phil, “What do you want me to play?” He said, “You’re a professional. You’re a great guitar player. I’ve asked you to play what you want to play.” Especially the solo, he just loved it *laughs*.
Then we started writing together. He had a studio in his back garden. We were recording lots and lots of stuff. Then it’s Christmastime. I had to go home, kids and all the rest of it. Phil was taking us to the station. He said, “How about I come along? Have a chat and listen to the tracks along the way?” I thought, “Wow, OK! You’re allowed!” *laughs* We got to the station and I asked, “Can I have the cassette back so I can listen to it?” He asked, “Do you mind if I keep it? I’ve got some ideas I’d like to add to it over the Christmas period.”
Then of course, the tragic phone call came. It was a tragedy for me. Everything disappeared, permanently, including all the tapes. Allegedly, they’re in Sweden. Some lady’s got them and she will not release them. I’ve written to her and said, “This is Phil’s last work. The world deserves to hear it.” No way. She will not release it.
How was Phil as a songwriting partner? What was your process like?
RG: It was very much both of us. We worked on the music, the words. I’d play riffs to Phil that I had on my Walkman for a while. He’d say, “Oh, I like that one. Let’s work on that one for a while.” But they just went, and it’s terrible what happened. Phil did play bass on one of my tracks on Dangerous Music, “Showdown”. Mark Stanway was playing keyboards and he said, “I brought Phil! Can I invite him in?” “Yeah, of course! He’s a pal of yours.”
Phil walked in and said, “I like this track. I’ve got my bass in the car. Would you like me to play on it?” I went, “Nah…just kidding! Go on then!” *laughs* He sent in his man, sat down in the corner, and just played it. He went, “Wow! This is great!” There wasn’t time to do anymore unfortunately, but I’m very proud, pleased, and honored to have Phil on one of my tracks.
I’ve heard some say the music you and Phil were working on was tentatively set for his third solo album. Others have said they were intended for a Thin Lizzy reunion album. At the time, was Thin Lizzy officially back or was Phil still toying with the idea?
PL: Right. He flew to Newcastle to do a TV show that ended up on The Tube, which was a massive show at the time. On the way back, Phil said, “Right, I’m reforming Thin Lizzy. Do you want to be in it?” This was to me and Brian Downey, the drummer. Of course we said yes. So yes, Thin Lizzy, in Phil’s mind, was officially reformed, guaranteed.
Wow.
RG: Wow is right. So when I got that phone call, my world was just shattered. I still miss him. We became very close friends. He was wonderful.
What was the biggest lesson you took away from your time with Phil?
RG: Don’t do fucking silly drugs. Don’t do it. This goes to anybody out there. Stay away from it, because it killed him. I never saw him doing heroin or anything else. He obviously smoked dope, but who didn’t? I’ve got stories about that as well.
Despite all the music you made in the 80s, you’re still recording and performing today in 2023. What keeps you going and what can fans expect going forward?
RG: I’m just starting my new album. I’ve always done doubling up of guitars and I’m just gonna use one guitar for this new one. I’m not sure when it’s going to come out, because some albums just fly down and others can take a long time. I wanna keep this really simple, really straightforward. Charlie Moore, to me, the best drummer in the world, will be playing on this album, which is great. I’m just gonna let it flow, but once Charlie plays, he really inspires me to follow all his fills and riffs. I’m looking forward to it very much.
The new Robin George collection, Ace in My Hand, is available now on Cherry Red Records. For more information on Robin George, visit www.robingeorge.co.uk.