Rock n’ roll is a dirty business. Nobody knows this better than David Libert. Despite scoring two #1 hits as 1/4 of 60s vocal pop group The Happenings, it was his work behind the scenes that cemented his status as one of the industry’s top names. Over the past 60 years, Libert has been a manager, road manager, concert promoter, producer, record executive, and even occasional drug dealer. Yes, you read that last part correctly. All of these details of his extraordinary life and more are explored in his autobiography, Rock and Roll Warrior. We had the chance to sit down with Libert to discuss this book, the evolving music industry, and the wild west of a landscape that was the 70s.
Greetings David and welcome to Defenders of the Faith! How are you doing today?
David Libert: I’m doing great Joe! I’m happy to be here and glad to join you.
Thank you so much for taking the time! We’re going to attempt, and they key word here is “attempt”, to touch on all the major facets of your storied career in this interview, starting with this new book. When did you first consider writing an autobiography and how long did it take to write Rock and Roll Warrior?
DL: I started to think about it several years ago. A lot of my friends would say, “You know David, you’ve lived an interesting life. You’ve got some great stories. You really oughta write a book.” I never really thought about it seriously until about maybe 3 and a half years ago. My girlfriend Angie said, “You know what? They’re right. I think you do have a story to tell and I think people would be interested.” So that was the impetus that had me decide, “Yeah, maybe I’ll do this!” Of course, I had absolutely no idea what an overwhelming endeavor writing a book really is. Had I known, I might’ve given it a little more thought before I did it, but I’m glad that I did it!
I’m glad that you did it too. There’s a lot of things that rock and metal fans, and even media such as myself, take for granted when talking to these artists. If it weren’t for guys like you, Shep Gordon, and others to keep that machine going behind the scenes, there’s no telling where many of these bands or artists would be today. If nothing else, this book really gives an insightful look on the business aspect of things, which isn’t something we hear too often.
DL: I’m glad you said that because one of the things I wanted the book to be was informative, to give people some kind of insight as to what it’s really like behind the scenes. I’m glad to hear you say that because perhaps it means I accomplished that.
Right on! Before doing this behind the scenes work, you were with The Happenings, who had not 1, but 2 hit records. What lessons did you learn with The Happenings that you subsequently applied to your years as a manager in the 70s and so forth?
DL: Well I suppose it gave me some insight as to how an artist thinks, which is not the way a manager thinks, that’s for sure *laughs*. I actually took over the management of The Happenings pretty early on. It gave me some experience in dealing with record companies and concert promoters, PR firms and booking agents. I learned how it all worked pretty early in my career. I think that it gave me somewhat of an ability to see how an artist perceives all of this. I think that was a very useful tool in my pursuit of being a manager and going after some of these other jobs I had throughout my career. Having insight into how an artist thinks makes it easier to deal with some of the things artists have difficulty understanding and grasping.
Were there many other 60s bands that were self managed or were The Happenings one of a few?
DL: We were definitely one of the few. There’s very, very artists then and even now that manage themselves. There’s a few. Everybody has a manager, but some artists actually manage the managers. There’s a few of those, but no. It was a rather unique situation. It gave me the ability to come to the conclusion pretty early, while I was with The Happenings, that maybe the business is something I should pursue more seriously. I could manage other bands. I could do other things. I was pretty sure I couldn’t be a Happening forever.
Of course, and it was only a matter of years before you ended up hooking up with Alice Cooper. Had you ever crossed paths with Alice or the band before working for them? Did you ever play any shows together?
DL: No, not at all. One of my very close friends, Jonny Podell, was the booking agent for Alice Cooper. I am not sure I ever really saw an Alice Cooper performance. The Happenings had never worked with them and I had left The Happenings at least a couple years earlier, before I was presented with possibly being employed by Alice Cooper. So no, there was absolutely no connections between Alice and The Happenings. That would’ve been bizarre!
That would’ve been a Happening, literally speaking!
DL: Yes *laughs*!
You were Alice Cooper’s road manager during their prime, both musically and commercially speaking. It was during this era that the band’s music and show generated substantial controversy. How often did protests occur outside of shows and did they ever pose a security risk?
DL: Yeah, I suppose there had been a few incidents during my tenure with Alice Cooper. I remember we were in Montreal. It’s a bit of a blur, but we landed at the airport there and there was a pretty large crowd on the tarmac for some reason. They tried to kidnap Alice! A whole thing ensued. Of course, they weren’t successful, we got Alice in the car, and we got away. Let me tell you, the Alice Cooper crew was a pretty tough bunch of guys. If you were gonna mess with them, you better be well organized and well prepared because they would defend Alice with their lives. They loved the guy. They weren’t gonna let anybody intimidate them or kidnap Alice. Every once in a blue moon something insane would happen, but we always prevailed.
You also prevailed during a really interesting time, when Alice Cooper transitioned from a band to a solo artist. You even devote a chapter to it in your book that does a really great job differentiating the two. In what ways did things change within the Alice Cooper camp during this period, both for you and in general?
DL: Looking back, I gotta tell you that there are diehard Alice Cooper band fans. They like Alice, but it was never the same to them after the band broke up and Alice became a solo artist. I was there to experience what was going on, the dynamic between the band and Alice. I chronicled it in my book. I think basically, certainly with just about every band that I’ve ever worked with, there’s always issues with jealousies and issues of democracy. Bands aren’t very democratic. The strongest really rule over the weakest, you might say.
These guys were high school buddies when the band was formed. What most people don’t know, and this is the most amazing thing about it, is that the name of the band was Alice Cooper. The lead singer was Vincent Furnier. This was before my time, but a publicist said, “If one of you had the name Alice Cooper, that would be a tremendous publicity vehicle.” So they said, “Let Vince be Alice Cooper. He’s the lead singer!” I don’t think anybody understood or gave any thought to what the repercussions and consequences would be of all that, so that’s pretty amazing in and of itself. They just all decided, here’s Alice!
I think they got tired of all the props and the effects. With Alice getting all of the attention, I guess they felt that at least they should be perceived as talented musicians and important pieces of the puzzle. They were. Alice and Michael Bruce wrote all the songs for the most part. They were all really excellent musicians. I think it just got to the point where they wanted to be taken seriously. In that situation, it was impossible for them to be perceived as an integral part of it all. I think it got to a point where they wanted to do something about it.
Was there ever a point later down the line, whether it be the late 70s or 80s, where someone in the industry attempted to get the band back together?
DL: Not until many, many years later. The amazing thing is, you asked me if it affected my job a lot. Not really. A little bit, I suppose. Instead of having 5 stars to deal with, I only had 1 star to deal with. From my perspective, it didn’t really change my job all that much. Maybe it made it slightly easier. But Alice was always easy to deal with anyway. Of all of them, he was the easiest to deal with. Amazingly, many years later, including today, they all got back together again for one reason or another.
They got back together for their induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. They record together. They do gigs together. I think they’re putting a European tour together with the original members. Somehow or another, they’re all still friends. Yes, Alice is a solo artist and he has a band. He goes out on tour with his band, but he also goes out on tour on occasion with the old band, which I think is amazing. I think things are more diverse today. Alice has another band too, the Hollywood Vampires, with Joe Perry and Johnny Depp. I think they all reach out to satisfy their creative juices. I think getting together with the old band is just one of the aspects of that.
What’s your favorite Alice Cooper album and why?
DL: Let’s see. That would be a toss up between Killer, School’s Out, and Billion Dollar Babies. I sort of gravitate to Killer because there’s songs on there I just love. One of the things I said in my book, and one of the arguments the old band had was, when somebody listens to an album, there’s no props, no special effects. There’s just the music. The truth is the music held up astonishingly well without all the props and effects. The music is pretty enduring. I think my favorite would probably be Killer. There’s just some songs on that album that I really love, but School’s Out would be a close second.
Killer would have to be my favorite as well. I revisited it a few months ago, put it on the turntable and turned off all the lights to enhance the mood. Not only do all the songs still hold up, but the atmosphere and tone of that album is incredible, so dark and eerie. It’s not dated at all.
DL: Oh yeah.
Funny enough, my uncle told me a story. He got Killer the week it came out when he was 10 years old with his allowance money. He put on the record, pulled out the infamous insert, and put it on his wall. A war between he and my grandma ensued. She took it down and told him he could have it, but he couldn’t put it on his wall. This went back and forth all week until one day, he came home from school and found it crumpled up in the trash. He took it out, fixed it with a rolling pin, and it stayed on his wall the rest of his teen years.
DL: *laughs* That’s a great story!
That has to be one of millions of stories like that, that visceral reaction people experienced from the band, whether it be on record or live. Like you said, they were so much more than just the props and the theatrics. It was the music, first and foremost.
DL: Right. I couldn’t agree more.
Speaking of music, during your time behind the scenes, did you ever consider going back into music yourself as an artist?
DL: No, I never did. Also, working with all of these bands, it presented me the opportunity to do a lot of things creatively. I sang background on a lot of the Alice Cooper tracks. Bob Ezrin routinely used me when there were background harmonies needed for a song. He’d recruit me and I was in the studio anyways. “Libert, get in there!” I was able to satisfy that passion for singing harmony. I did my share of producing, something that I wish I pursued more vigorously. I think I was a fairly good producer. I did have some success, but never made it my major pursuit. Every once in a while I’d play keyboards on something, so I did have an opportunity.
I wasn’t completely void of not being able to be musically creative. I think that satisfied me. Once I left The Happenings, I was perfectly happy never to be performing onstage again *laughs*. I experienced that. I know what it felt like. I know what the thrill was. It wasn’t something I was really so passionate about that I couldn’t live without it like some people are. I was happy where I was positioned in all of this.
After working with Alice Cooper, you worked closely with the legendary Parliament-Funkadelic. As the old song goes, “Ain’t no party like a P-Funk party and a P-Funk party don’t stop.” What was the craziest P-Funk party you ever encountered?
DL: That’s a tough one. There’s a chapter in the book where George (Clinton) and Bootsy (Collins) played RFK Stadium in Washington, D.C. Washington, D.C. was without a doubt George’s biggest market. He sold out 3 shows in a row at the Capitol Centre, a 20,000 seat arena. Bootsy sold out 2 shows there. We put them together and figured, “Boy, this is gonna be massive.” So we put them in the 60,000 seat RFK Stadium and immediately encountered some incredible problems.
The stadium governing board was not thrilled about having 60,000 black kids in their well manicured stadium, which is where the Washington Commanders, back then they were the Redskins, played. There was a big court battle. There was just a lot of chaos and a lot of bad blood going on during all of that. It was a bit of a battle. I got into it with the promoters. George was pissed off because there was so many restrictions place on the gig. Amazingly, it didn’t sell well at all. I ended up getting kidnapped by the promoters to changed the deal.
They wanted me to renegotiate the deal, so they grabbed me, threw me in a van, and took me to this nondescript hotel a few blocks from the stadium. It was really chaotic. The promoter was there and I said, “George is not going on until we get the money.” That was the whole issue. “We could sit here all night, but George is not gonna go on. I’ve been taken here against my will. Surely there’s a serious crime in all of this.”
Anyway, they came to reason, brought me back to the stadium, had the cash waiting for me which I brought to the tour accountant, who wisely took it over to the hotel to put it in the hotel safe so they couldn’t steal it back, if that even was their intention. When the show was over, I got a call from the production manager, David Denny, who was the brother of Sandy Denny, the British popstar. He said, “The promoters took the plywood away.” One of the rules was they had to lay down plywood so that the field wouldn’t be destroyed. They wanted us to buy the plywood from them so we could put it back and finish unloading the gear offstage because we had gigs to do.
I said to David, “Take a 10 minute break. I’m sure the stadium doesn’t want you hooligans in their stadium any longer than they have to and they’ll make the promoters put the plywood back.”, which is exactly what they did. That was a pretty insane evening with George Clinton. That was just a whole crazy thing, working with George. In way it was exhilarating because there ain’t no party like a P-Funk party. To go to a P-Funk show is an experience that you’ll never forget because it’s just electric. I took a lot of pride in being a part of that, but it was also very difficult on a lot of levels.
There was street mentality and it was not organized on a certain level. I brought as much organization into it as possible. They thought I was a logistical genius. Not really. I worked with Alice Cooper, which was an extremely well oiled machine. Compared to the insanity of a George Clinton organization, whatever I could do to make things run smoother made me look pretty cool, so I was happy about that.
P-Funk did a whole run of stadium dates that summer. I know this because here in Chicago, the Soldier Field show still gets talked about to this day.
DL: That was a great show. I don’t know whether you noticed or not, but Bootsy was on the bill and never showed up.
That show?
DL: Yes, what happened was George just assumed Bootsy would do the show and nobody told Bootsy. Bootsy got pissed off. He said, “You know what? I’m not doing it. How dare you think I’m just gonna do this show because you said so.” So the promoter had a problem. It’s the night before the show. What is he gonna do? He was clever enough to figure it out. The day of the show, he put big signs up, “Due to circumstances beyond our control Bootsy will not be appearing today. If you want a refund, go to the box office.” Nobody asked for a refund. They were already there. P-Funk was on the show, Taste of Honey, Cameo. I don’t remember who else was on the bill. Maybe you do. So nobody asked for their money back and no one seemed to be that disappointed. Somehow that worked out without any riots or insanity, but that’s what it’s like working with George Clinton everyday *laughs*.
I’ve heard some people say Rick James was on that show. Other people say it was Prince. I’m not sure if it was one or the other or both.
DL: I can’t remember, but the only show Prince was on was the L.A. show, so it must’ve been Rick James at the Chicago show.
That was it. The other interesting thing is that apparently there was a lot of controversy surrounding that show because apparently similar to the Washington, D.C. situation, our mayor at the time wasn’t too thrilled on having an act like Parliament-Funkadelic playing the biggest venue in the city.
DL: I don’t remember the details, but Chicago was a cakewalk compared to D.C., no matter what the mayor might have thought. Just because you’re the mayor doesn’t mean you can put a stop on a show when contracts are signed, people are hired, unless there’s some kind of security issue. 80,000 people showed up for that show.
There’s a wild story in here about the time you almost ended up managing Guns N’ Roses. At the time they came across your radar, were any other managers or labels seeking them out? When exactly did you first meet them?
DL: No, nobody was really taking a look at them when I first met them. I got a call from the notorious Kim Fowley one day. Kim was the manager and producer of The Runaways, the girl group with Lita Ford, Cherie Currie, Joan Jett. He said, “David, go check this band out. They’re living in a storage locker and they’re pretty good. They’re called Guns N’ Roses.” So I went over there and I was completely blown away. You could see there was something very special about these guys.
As crazy as it all ways, they were living in a storage locker in this storage complex where other bands were living too, so you could imagine every night there were crazy parties and all of that. When it came to the music, these guys were extremely disciplined and dedicated to what it was that they were doing. They rehearsed hours and hours everyday and you could see it. The songs were great. Their musicianship was great. But more than that, they possessed a quality that I had never seen before in a band and that was they were the real deal. What I mean is they were never not Guns N’ Roses. They were always Guns N’ Roses.
Whether they were together as a band or just hanging out individually, they were never not the band. Maybe it was their state of mind or the confidence they had in themselves, but that was a very intoxicating elixir. It influenced everybody around them. I wanted to manage them. Unfortunately, it was one of those moments in my life where I was flat broke and I needed to get some money together in order to get them out of that storage locker and into a house. Rehearsing there was fine. Living there wasn’t. There was no running water. I was just not able to get it together to come up with the money to really help them and had to walk away from the situation. Of course 7 months later they were the biggest band in the world. The one what got away, Joe.
Yeah, everybody’s got one. You were there for a very pivotal time in that band’s career without a doubt. Did you ever keep in contact with them over the years?
DL: Yeah, I still speak to Slash occasionally. Our paths cross from time to time. I like those guys. They were…Axl (Rose) was insane. Talk about difficult people to deal with. He was affected by everything. I think he had some mental health issues, but yeah. Slash and I are still friends and he’s just a regular guy. Good guy.
Towards the end of the book, you talk about the issues artists like The Happenings and other 60s bands faced in being paid royalties via streaming services and satellite radio. As an industry insider, did you ever think the tide would so radically turn from physical to digital media? What are your thoughts on the current state of the music industry?
DL: Well you know, music is affected like most industries by the evolution of technology. I was around when 45s were invented, could you imagine? That became a big thing. Then the LP was invented and that was a big thing. Then there were 8 tracks and cassettes and then CDs revolutionized the industry. Could I foresee what was gonna happen? No. Then digital downloads, which are almost nonexistent today with streaming.
It’s a completely different universe and quite frankly, I don’t blame kids for not buying CDs anymore. For $10 a month, you can subscribe to Amazon Music or Apple Music and ask Siri or Alexa to play, instantaneously, virtually every song that was ever recorded. Every band, every album, every genre, for $10 a month. You have the entire catalog of the music world at your fingertips. Why would anybody want to run out and buy CDs under those circumstances when you can simply access it right then and there? I don’t blame the kids, but it certainly affected my bottom line of no more buying CDs, no more digital downloads.
That all changed when two very entrepreneurial guys, Mark Volman and Howard Kaylan, two ex-Turtles, also known as Flo & Eddie, the musical comedy band, who I got to know very well because they were the opening act for Alice on a lot of his tours, decided to sue SiriusXM, Pandora, and a few others for not paying performance royalties for anything recorded prior to 1972. It was a fluke in the law and they weren’t going for it. They sued. All the majors hopped on as well. I settled for $300 million in back royalties. We got our share of course as The Happenings.
The influence of that law put pressure on congress, and they passed a law called the Music Modernization Act. Now, old fogies like me from bands from yesteryear actually get a far more fair share of streaming royalties from SiriusXM, Pandora, Spotify, and all of these new digital delivery streaming systems. It all worked out well and I think my royalties are bigger now than ever because of that. I’m pleased. Thank you Mark Volman and Howard Kaylan.
How did they come up with 1972? Did a law pass that year or did it have to do with copyrights? Hypothetically speaking, prior to this settlement and the legal action, “Under My Wheels” from ’71 could be played and not receive artist royalties, but “Billion Dollar Babies” from ’73 would. How did that work?
DL: I’m not sure how it all unfolded, but there was a federal law where under certain circumstances artist royalties did not have to be paid prior to 1972, because when I think they did finally pass a law to protect the artists, it was 1972 and they didn’t prorate it. It was something like that. I don’t know if people realize this, but publishers get paid and writers get paid when radio plays a song, but the artist does not. Is that a law? No. It was an unwritten understanding that if a record company played a record, they had to pay the publisher and the writers.
But the record companies let them off the hook and they didn’t have to pay the artist. The artist makes money from the sales, the CDs, and that sort of thing, but they really didn’t get paid artist royalties. Until Mark and Howard came along, there was never really any pressure on anybody to change the law, so when the internet came into being, everybody had the opportunity to interpret what these rules and laws really meant. SiriusXM decided that it was in their best interest to interpret it as they didn’t have to pay the artists and they could save themselves hundreds of millions of dollars. That’s how all of that went down. Now everybody has to pay their fair shares. Is it up to what it should be? Probably not, but it gets closer all the time.
Right, and there is no rhyme or reason with Spotify and these other outlets spawning left and right. I can’t help but think back to when I interviewed your good friend Carmine Appice last year. He said something to the effect of, “I was lucky enough to be part of the era when records actually sold.” That was heavy.
DL: That was the golden age, and me too. I was smack dab in the middle of what you’d call the golden age of the record industry, the late 60s through the mid 80s to the 90s. It was the golden age. That’s when most records were sold. There were big concerts. It was amazing, but nothing stays the same forever, especially in an industry which uses technology to sell and promote. Those kinds of things are constantly changing. I look back on it all with a lot of love and a lot of fondness. It’ll never be like that again. I just feel fortunate that I was smack in the middle of the best era of the music industry.
I’ve heard that your book is currently in talks to be turned into a movie. Are there any new details you can give us on that front?
DL: Uh, no *laughs*. I have to keep it all very close to the vest. There seems to be tremendous interest. Wouldn’t that be nice? That would be the icing on the cake. I figured that when I wrote this book, it would probably be the last highlight of my life. If they turn it into a movie or a series, which is what they’re kicking around right now, that would really be something. But I have to be very close lipped about it all and knock on wood *laughs*.
In closing, besides this book, what have you been up to these days?
DL: I’m living in the southern California High Desert, right next to Joshua Tree out here, living a life of relative leisure, which I’m enjoying. Look, I worked so hard for over 50 years. It’s nice to relax a little bit. I live out here with my girlfriend Angie and our 3 rescue dogs. We’re very much involved in animal rights. I have 3 of my own, and I work to find good homes for other shelter dogs who are either abandoned or abused or were strays. That’s pretty much what I’ve been devoting my life to lately.
Now I get calls all the time from people who want me to manage them or produce them, hire me to pick my brain. I turn almost everything down, unless it sounds like it might be fun or I can make a few bucks in the process. I’m happy to be living a life of leisure out here in the desert and really enjoying my life right now. You’ve read the book. My life has certainly been a series of ups and downs. By the grace of God, somehow or another, I landed on my feet. Maybe it’s luck. Who knows? I don’t wanna push it *laughs*.
David Libert’s new book, Rock and Roll Warrior, is out now on Sunset Blvd. Books.