Time Tells No Lies and neither does Tino Troy! For the past 50 years, Tino and his brother Chris have been the driving force behind the iconic Praying Mantis. Though most associated with the NWOBHM, the band has since transcended the movement, dipping their toes in the pools of AOR and traditional metal, sometimes blurring the line between the two with each release. They do exactly this and more on their latest album, Defiance. We sat down with Troy to discuss personnel changes, his relationship with his brother, and 50 years of the undefeatable Praying Mantis. “The Journey Goes On”!
Greetings Tino and welcome to Defenders of the Faith! How are you doing today?
Tino Troy: Hey, it’s nice to see you Joe! I can see your face! Probably everyone else I wouldn’t be able to see *laughs*. I’m doing great, thank you. I was just recording some material for another band, a guitar solo, so ahh! *laughs* I’m going crazy at the moment.
Aren’t we all? Praying Mantis are on the verge of releasing their 12th studio album, Defiance. How soon after 2022’s Katharsis did work get started on this one?
TT: Some of the songs were carried over from that last album. We decided to work on the songs for Katharsis and put these ones on the shelf until later. We had some pretty good groundwork going there. We sort of hit the ground running with the album really. I was a bit of a late developer on this album actually. I’m not so prolific on the songwriting front because I was in the process of moving houses. I had to shift off and breakdown my studio and everything. I had a massive great studio. I’m working out of my box room at the moment, about 8 foot by 8 foot *laughs*! But we finished the album in the end and it’s great.
Was there anything the band did differently when writing and recording this album as opposed to past releases?
TT: It pretty much followed the same pattern as Katharsis because we have our two Dutch brothers (singer John Cuijpers and drummer Hans in ‘t Zandt), they live over the water in the Netherlands. When we had the COVID period during the Katharsis thing, we actually recorded remotely like many bands did. We kept working on this one and did the same thing. Me having moved down to the coastal area now from where I was in London, I’m still away from my brother and Andy Burgess as well, the English guy *laughs*. Andy came over and Chris came over here a few times and we put some stuff down, so we weren’t so totally divorced from each other *laughs*.
The title track, “Defiance”, really seems to sum up this album and Praying Mantis’s attitude as a whole. Were there any other titles in consideration and what does “Defiance” mean to you?
TT: “Defiance” to me, well the song was written by Chris and it was written about what was happening in Ukraine and the war when they were invaded. It was “Defiance” from their point of view, the Ukranians’ point of view. “Defiance” for me means we’ve been going 50 years and we’re still going strong. We’re defiant *laughs*!
Amidst all the brilliant originals on this album is a spot on cover of Russ Ballard’s “I Surrender”. As I understand, it was originally recorded and intended to be featured on Time Tells No Lies, but was scrapped after running into conflict with Rainbow who had a hit with it at the same time. Did the band ever cross paths with Rainbow around this time and how does it feel to finally cover the song now?
TT: We did actually cross paths with Rainbow and in fact, we probably recorded it before they did *laughs*. We had to shelve it obviously. We got as far as backing tracks with drums, background, and even a guide vocal in it. I don’t think we got as far as doing the harmony guitars at the end, the theme. But yeah, we recorded it and then we found…our managers came in the studio one day and said, “We got some bad news for you. Rainbow want to cover it. We don’t want to fight with Rainbow, us minions.” *laughs*
So yeah, we just left it over for quite a few years. We always spoke about maybe doing it later on. In fact, we should’ve waited until the 50 year anniversary of the Time Tells No Lies album and then done it *laughs*. I think we did a good version of it, a very modern day version of it. When you listen to it up against the Rainbow version, it’s actually quite happening man.
Funny enough, around the same time you and Rainbow recorded it, there were two other versions as well, one by Head East and another by Cherie & Marie Currie. Maybe it was wise of Praying Mantis to wait!
TT: I’d say so! I hadn’t heard those versions either until someone showed me!
Whereas Time Tells No Lies featured multiple members handling lead vocals, later Praying Mantis albums feature a lead singer, the latest being John Cuijpers. What led to this shift and what does John add to the band musically?
TT: Well he’s got great pipes, as you can hear. He’s a great figure and a great singer. I’d like to see him write a few more songs himself. I always like vocalists who write the lyrics themselves because they can actually feel the song better. With John, whether it be working in the studio or working remotely, we found it equal. Sometimes you’re in the studio with someone and you know they can do better than that. When you’re doing it remotely or over a telephone call or email or something like that, what you need to do is put that comforting arm around the shoulder and say, “I know you can do better than that.” But yeah, that’s the only thing, I wish he’d write more lyrics. He wrote one song and that’s the one about his father’s passing, the ballad, what was that called again? Oh yeah, “Forever in My Heart”. That’s the one, isn’t it?
I believe so! Taking that into consideration, when it comes to writing for Praying Mantis, who handles what aspect of each song? Does it vary?
TT: Yes, much of it varies. On this album, the other guitar player (Andy Burgess), he contributed a lot more. He’s actually written most of the album, some very good songs. Chris is a major lyric writer. I’ve written some, but I’d say Chris has 75% of the lyrics, and probably about another 20% of the music. Then, Andy’s written the rest of it. That’s it I suppose. I concentrate more on the arrangements and getting it all together, sometimes to the chagrin of the band *laughs*.
An interesting aspect of Praying Mantis from the beginning is the way you’ve towed the line between heavy metal and AOR. This album is no exception, with some cuts even boasting a west coast feel to them. Is it important to you that Praying Mantis not remain restricted to any one given musical box?
TT: Yes. We were early on a heavy metal band, but also not really. We just got swept up by the New Wave of British Heavy Metal, so it was a real surprise to us. We just happened to jump on this ship that was going in the wrong direction from us and where we wanted to go *laughs*. It was great. We had quite the ride. The great thing is we’ve been able to cross the board a little bit like you say, go into that AOR mold. It confuses some people sometimes. “Oh, I thought you were a New Wave of British Heavy Metal band.” If you listen to that album (Time Tells No Lies), it was very different. We had influences that were more from the rockier side of things like Thin Lizzy and Wishbone Ash with their vocal harmonies. We picked up on that. The twin guitars, we melded that sound into our own mold.
At the forefront of Praying Mantis remains yourself and your brother, Chris, who founded the band now 50 years ago. Over the course of rock history, we’ve seen brothers like Eddie and Alex Van Halen who were inseparable. We’ve also seen the likes of Ray and Dave Davies of The Kinks, a band you’ve covered, whose relationship has been strenuous. How do you and Chris maintain your relationship and keep the band together?
TT: We don’t see each other from day to day, that’s the main thing *laughs*. It must be difficult with a lot of these bands who are touring all the time and recording all the time and they’re together all the time. That’s the way brothers start getting into fights. We’ve experienced little hiccups ourselves, but we manage to keep it together. That’s the heart of the whole band, really. We’re all good mates. We’re all good friends. Everyone sees us smiling onstage. We don’t do these massive tours. We get together every now and again for a week or two maybe at most. Then we go our way for a month and we’ll do it again. We have a little bit of breathing space is what I’m trying to say *laughs*.
In that way, would you say at this stage in the band’s career, having that freedom to do things on your own terms as opposed to being in the permanent album/tour cycle of say Iron Maiden or Def Leppard has helped benefit the band?
TT: No, not really, because we’re not rich at all *laughs*. The same goes for a lot of these bands, but it comes with the territory really.
This year marks the 45th anniversary of Praying Mantis’s classic debut single, “Captured City”. A defining moment of the early NWOBHM, what are your memories of writing and recording that song? Subsequently, was there ever a sense back then that Praying Mantis were part of something larger?
TT: Yeah, we thought we were going places at the time actually. When we first presented our demo tape to Neal Kay who had this Heavy Metal Soundhouse, it was amazing to get that thumbs up. He was like the gladiator in the gladiator’s arena, you know? *laughs* He put it out to the audience in the arena and we got the big thumbs up, so it was great. We knew we were on that crest of the wave. We rode it for as long as we could. Sadly, it came to an end through bad management and stuff like that. We weren’t steered in the right direction and we made some bad decisions at the time. Well, our management did *laughs*.
We had (Q Prime founder) Peter Mensch approach us. He said, “Get yourself a singer and I’ll take you on. I’ll take you to America and I’ll make you big.” Our management, “We don’t need the Americans to step in here. We can do the same for you.” Being naïve at the time and very green, we believed that. That was that. We could’ve been Def Leppard, Iron Maiden.
I always found that odd for an era when British metal bands were being swept up left and right. Correct me if I’m wrong, but was Time Tells No Lies ever properly issued here in the States?
TT: No, it hasn’t. It’s a real shame, isn’t it?
Absolutely. That album boasts so many classic songs, with equally classic riffs and solos. Which ones stand out the most to you and why?
TT: Wow, all of them really, apart from “All Day and All of the Night”. “All Day and All of the Night” was great because it was our version of it. We made it funky a little bit as well, which was quite great. I’d say songs like “Beads of Ebony”, that was a great song, great guitar harmonies as well. Tim Friese-Green, our producer at the time, really made us work at this. We did it all organically in those days, huddled around the same microphone, the same U47. We all had to sing in front of each other and we were watching each other lip sync and everything. It was quite amazing in those days.
How long did it take to record that album?
TT: I think we did it within a month. We started it just before Christmas in November (of 1980) I think. I’ll have to think back on this a second. Those old brain cells *laughs*! Then, we went back and resumed in the new year, yeah.
Backtracking a bit, you mentioned “Beads of Ebony” and that twin guitar riff. That has always been my favorite Praying Mantis song, if only for that riff alone. How did that song come about?
TT: Oh wow! “Beads of Ebony”, I had that lyric idea. It’s about “Beads of Ebony”, or eyes. That’s how it came about. I was playing and the music came first. I had this thing and put the lyrics to it. I thought, “Beads of Ebony”. I had this melody in my head and that’s how I just put it down. That was that. It’s interesting. I remember at the end of that because it goes into “Flirting with Suicide”. I remember the engineer, Mike Shipley, who went onto do bigger things with Maiden and stuff, produce their albums, he had decided, “We gotta have wind at the end!” That, “Swoosh!” He put it through a flanger and that’s how we got that segue at the end of “Beads of Ebony” into “Flirting with Suicide” *laughs*. See, not a lot of people know that. You’re probably the first person to hear that *laughs*!
I’m honored. Considering not just Time Tells No Lies, but the band’s output from the ’90s and beyond, when it comes to playing live, is it a struggle to put together a setlist?
TT: It’s a real struggle man. We’ve probably got 8 to 10 hours of material to pick from. Of course, we do gigs here, there, and everywhere. People say, “Why don’t you play so and so?”. We have requests on our Facebook page as well and everything like, “Why don’t you come over here?” I say, “If there’s anyone over there, we’ll come.” It’s so difficult to please everybody all of the time. You can’t make everyone happy. A lot of people still thrive on the older stuff. For a lot of the NWOBHM people, we stick to that era and add some new ones. We’re doing a Japanese tour in June. We’re gonna try some others from some of the other albums over there. We’ve got a 2 hour set there, so that’ll help us through *laughs*.
I’m calling you from Chicago, which is where Praying Mantis was supposed to play their first American show back in 2017. Obviously, that didn’t pan out, more for reasons on our end than yours. I know touring for overseas bands these days is rather tough. Do you see any scenario in which Praying Mantis could play America in the future?
TT: I’ve been wanting to come to America for ages and ages. It just hasn’t worked out. It’s difficult with the visas and the long process of actually getting a visa, whereas you guys can come over here for $30 *laughs*! We’ve always wanted to come to America and we’re still looking at that. If we can organize that, we can. It’s just a matter of finding a promoter. You got the power Joe! You tell ’em! We’ll come gladly and we’ll play whatever songs you want man.
In closing, what are Praying Mantis’s plans for the rest of the year and looking into next?
TT: Party time! It’s 50 years *laughs*! With the album coming out, we just released another single from Frontiers Records, the “Standing Tall” one, which is very disco. Its got a dance beat to it. I always wanted to do a heavy rock song with a dance beat to it. People are going, “What’s this?! Oh no!…I like it!” *laughs* It’s like every heavy metaller loves to hate ABBA, but secretly the love them, you know?
ABBA’s one of my favorite bands of all time! It’s funny though because when I was listening to the album, that song stood out to me. I was like, “Woah, Praying Mantis has gone synthwave…I love it!” It’s been stuck in my head ever since.
TT: It’s got a great message as well. It’s like a modern day “Children of the Earth”. Chris wrote those lyrics in 1975 about man pillaging the earth and raping mother earth. 50 years down the line and we haven’t learned a lot. It’s up to us to save ourselves!
The new Praying Mantis album, Defiance, is available now on Frontiers Records. For more information on Praying Mantis, visit www.prayingmantis.rocks.
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